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Ray's mobile conference 2008 about Genesis
Revilonivek:
Hey Craig-
I told him that- His response was this.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:3, 4 KJV)
Θέλω the Greek verb used as a participial phrase in this verse is not a state of being verb, but it means to desire, to wish. In today's English we would say:
"...in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
God desires our salvation so much that He made it possible (He did all the work); all we must do is trust Him.
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. (1 Timothy 4:10 KJV)
There is only one Savior for all men. Jesus paid for everyone's sin debt, but it is sufficient and applicable only to those who accept Jesus payment by simply trusting Him.
Then proceeded to tell me that he feels that I am trying to discredit and twisting the truth.
I told him, I am only discrediting the doctrines of men. Not what the scriptures actually says!
and Of course, he blocked me instead on Facebook as soon as I said that. Probably time to shake the dust off my feet.
Foxx:
yes, that does translate as a wish or desire but the question is does God get what he wishes or desires? Does God get his way? The answer is a resounding yes! God is in full control. And by the way this is a typical argument among those who believe in free will. They don't want to believe God could or would save everyone so they change his desire or wish into something as weak as man's wants and needs. People ask well what's the point if God could have just _____? Well the better question what is the point if he didn't do ____? People don't expect that...it makes them upset. Which isn't the goal mind you but people, when wrong, then begin attacking instead if using scriptures to substantiate their claims. I don't know how many times I've been told I'm taking things out of context or twisting doctrine and blah blah blah, not one person who said that to me ever has been able to use scripture to defend their logic. BUT when I use scripture then I'm the one who is twisting things, haha! But they don't see the flaw in their reasoning.
I recall when I discussed the free will thing once and the person claimed that I broke free will into its dictionary parts to limit it but I told him those aren't my definitions, this is the way the word is understood by people. Free will is defined that way because that is the manner in which it is used. It wouldn't be defined that way if that's not what it meant. That's the whole point of definitions! My point being that the concept of free will is incorrect based partly on its flawed definitions and concept. He then later uses that very definition to defend his argument. I asked him " so why is it ok to use the dictionary defintion to defend free will but its not ok to use the definition to prove its fallacy? He didn't have an answer. This has happened time and time again with other people. They don't want to believe God is in control and they want their free will to determine everything.
If God wants, wishes, desires, wills, then it WILL happen. This is the mistake among those who try to lower God to the level of man. And being told you are twisting the scriptures context essentially is nothing to be surprised of.
The thing of it is my friend is people like Ray and others are able to defend God's truths because they understand the fundamental basis of his word. If anything diverts from that basis then it must not be truth and this is how they counter all these things that people such as your friend says. Keep reading on the site and don't be discouraged. I started on this site in 2009 and I was so excited and touched by the warmth and brutal honesty and logic of Ray that I completely changed forever and I am thank ful for that. And I did the first thing that I think most of us have done, run out and tell the good news...but for mot the don't see it s such. It took me a while to understand this. To not be painted into a corner is difficult when one doesn't understand the basics fully. When I have gotten in to discussions more recently over the last 6 months or so its not as difficult because I know now that when someone says something that is typical of incorrect doctrine I remember HOW and WHY their interpretation or context or THEIR twisting of the scriptures flawed.
I guess I say all this because you need to be able to defend yourself on many of these matters. We can support and answer questions but fighting your own battles is something you need to do. It seems like Craig or Kat or someone tells people this each week. Honestly it would be great to be there by your side. I know what it feels like to know the truth but just unable to articulate it. But that may be God's way of not letting that individual you're talking to comprehend...at least for now.
I am truly sorry about your friend. They will come around Lord willing and if not its ok too. God is in control and always gets what he wants ;)
BTW, good question regarding the 6 days thing though. Loved the responses by thetruth.
Revilonivek:
Hey Foxx,
I think he got mostly offended by the part where I told him that God will save all of mankind and whatever God desires and wills, HE will make it happen and not return it to void. It was the basis of that conversation. as soon as we got to that subject, He right then accused me of twisting the truth and blocked me right then. we were talking about a bunch of things-one thing led to another-I think it was his last straw. I only answered a fool according to his folly- like about noah's flood, he insisted, ALL means ALL, then I bought up the part about God's salvation for ALL mankind, He insisted it doesnt apply to ALL. He's an hardcore christian, so immersed in Christendom that He loves their god. It's not his fault. I think God is planting seeds in his heart to know where the narrow path is for whenever it's time. It is not me.. I didn't even plan on talking to him about these things, but it just happened. He's a good man. I just blame the damnable heresies for keeping people in the dark. what He just heard is the shaking of his foundation. It's either he takes down and rebuild or keep the house he built. We all have to go through that especially when it comes to our own spiritual growth. I am not even offended at all that he blocked me. I understand though, because I've been there once. It takes time.
Foxx:
Well don't blame those heresies. God uses those things to confound the wise. Imagine Jesus telling the religious know it alls of his day that they don't understand what they are taking about and furthermore they are snakes and hypocrites, haha! They wanted him dead big time. While its unlikely to be killed for such things now I have been told I'll be in hell next to Hitler and Stalin a time or two. I find it odd that a friend would block you, perhaps it is for the best. Christians can dish it out it but they can't take it huh? Anyway, do you want to still be friends with him?
thetruth:
Hello again Revilonivek!
Hope all is well my friend !Here is some more to help answer your question from Ray!
Creation
« on: June 14, 2007, 11:27:45 AM »
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From: "George"
Ray -
I know the Genesis Creation record is a big subject, but have you considered what the Lord Himself said in Exodus 20:11:
(KJV):
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Thanks, Regards, George.
Dear George: Yes, of course I considered it. But the word "day--yom" has a multitude of uses representing different lengths of time:
"From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): - age, chronicles, as (so) long as, season..." Dr. Strong.
In Gen. 2:4, the SAME SIX DAYS of Gen. 1 are called "THE [singular] day." The whole judgment period of the whole world is called "A day" in Acts 17:31, etc.
In Heb. 4:4 we read of this "DAY" [singular] of rest on which God "did rest." "Again, He limited [Gk: designates A certain day [singular], saying to David, TODAY....TODAY if ye will ...For if Jesus had given them rest, then would He not afterward have spoken of ANOTHER DAY [singular] There remains therefore A rest to the people of God" (Heb. 4:4-10). It this DAY OF REST that we are to enter into a "24-hour day" and then it's back to our old carnal ways again? I think NOT
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