> General Discussions
Jesus: "the CREATED of the Father"
Dave in Tenn:
Farlsborough. God is a family. The word "god" is a title (Elohim in Hebrew, Theos in Greek). It is nobody's name, unless some hippy named their kid God.
Jesus said in teaching the disciples, "Joh 14:19-20 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
We have their witness that after the world saw Him no more, the disciples did. WE "see" Him by faith. WE are in this relationship. We are in this family.
Presently, we are in it by the Spirit of adoption, but when we are 'born from above', we will be the sons and daughters of God. We will be in the "GOD FAMILY"---the FATHER"S FAMILY, by name.
Now...I don't know what Mormons believe. But I believe the Father in the God Family is creating more sons and daughters. Sons and daughters are family. What else does it describe?
Do we get the 'title'? Could be we already have it. There are many 'gods' and many 'lords'. Some of them don't exist, and others are gods unto themselves. I don't ascribe ANY "supernatural" (or pseudo-spiritual) attributes to the TITLE. See Psalms 82.
Continuing, I don't even know what a big swirling spiritual unity is. :D No, I don't believe we will be 'obliterated' and joined into any such thing. I DO believe we will be LIKE CHRIST. That's what Scripture says. Whatever He was is what we will be 'like' NEXT. Was He 'obliterated'? No, He was given all power in Heaven and on Earth. Did he do anything, say anything, accomplish anything apart from what the Father gave Him to do, say, and accomplish? No, by His own mouth.
He is the FIRST to die and be raised to immortality. He will not be the last.
We may can speculate and have faith with some 'safety' and 'conviction' on what comes NEXT, (Jesus did walk among men after HIS resurrection). But there are more ages to follow! Paul had a vision of the 'seventh heaven' and said it was either unwise, inexpedient or illegal/unlawful to utter it (the translators disagree). Eye has not seen, neither has ear heard, neither has it entered into the MIND (imagination?) of man what glories await. For that reason ALONE, I can't 'believe' as the Mormons or the Hindus believe. If it can be described, it is not what Paul 'saw'.
Add to that, that the INCREASE of His Government shall know no end. Not just His government, but the INCREASE of it will not end.
I have a hard enough time with the christian, trinitarian (and unitarian too) 'heaven'. ;D I'm pretty dang sure he didn't see THAT.
lareli:
Farlsborough, Dave
Speaking of Mormons, Hindus etc. does God call people to other religions and then choose people from other religions? Or is the choosing only from those called into the Christian church?
Does God choose His elect from among Mormons, Hindus, also?
theophilus:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on August 15, 2014, 12:58:19 PM ---
--- Quote from: Kat on August 14, 2014, 09:46:48 PM ---
Alex, I do not believe you will find a Scripture that nails this down... this is a conundrum, not meant to be made obvious to the world. But we can get answers by searching the "sum of your word is truth" (Psalms 119:160).
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
I think that the main point here is that the Son was brought forth FIRST. He was first so that by and through Him the Father would do everything concerning this creation.
v. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
v. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
The Son is what the Father brought forth of Himself, as God of this creation. He is not a separate being, a creation apart from the Father, He is brought forth - came out, had existence where before He did not.
v. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
v. 19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell,
The Son is the Father's voice and He is the Father's image, not another being representing the Father, He is very much a part of the Father. He is what the Father brought forth/made/created whatever you want to call it, of/from Himself that He did not already have, like an extended part of Himself. That's how He could say...
John 14:7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him."
John 10:30 I and My Father are one.
mercy peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Very interesting Kat. Thank you.
I am in agreement that Christ was brought forth from the Father, though it's interesting to me JOHNFROMKENTUCKY in his post stated that Jesus was NOT created. Perhaps BROUGHT FORTH, though it means the same as CREATED, is more accurate in that this is how the scriptures describe Jesus' coming into existence? John your input would be welcome here.
Your final statement was very enlightening to me. I found this particularly helpful in my understanding;
"The Son is what the Father brought forth of Himself, as God of this creation. He is not a separate being, a creation apart from the Father, He is brought forth - came out, had existence where before He did not."
I think it goes nicely with what John also said; "The Father and Jesus are different aspects of One God."
Very interesting to see how this discussion has evolved over time. I appreciate the clarifications. I think I am in agreement with you guys now.
God bless,
Alex
--- End quote ---
I take exception with the phrase "The Son is what the Father brought forth of Himself, as God of this creation. He is not a separate being, a creation apart from the Father, He is brought forth - came out, had existence where before He did not."
Our Lord Jesus revealed that He CAME FORTH "FROM" the Father; not that He CAME FORTH "OF" the Father as the above phrase states. Maybe I am misunderstanding these prepositions.
theophilus:
Great point Dave!!! :) :) :)
A cookie for you! ;) ;) ;)
I love it!
John from Kentucky:
God is not just a title. God is not a family.
God is One. God is unique. God is special.
How do I know this? The Scriptures.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me. Isa 43:10
I, even I, am the LORD,
And besides Me there is no savior. Isa 43:11
...I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God. Isa 44:6
...Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one. Isa 44:8
...I am the LORD, Who makes all things,
Who stretches out the heavens all alone,
Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself. Isa 44:24
I am the LORD, and there is no other;
There is no God besides Me. Isa 45:5
That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting
That there is none besides Me.
I am the LORD, and there is no other. Isa 45:6
I am the LORD, and there is no other. Isa 45:18
And there is no God besides Me,
A just God and a Savior;
There is none besides Me. Isa 45:21
For I am God, and there is no other. Isa 45:22
Those who have ears, let them hear.
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