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Jesus: "the CREATED of the Father"
Dennis Vogel:
Maybe listen to all of this:
http://bible-truths.com/audio/9-2-06MobileConf.4.mp3
rick:
I will be the first to admit that we "understand in part" as Paul has told us. We certainly do not understand all of the mechanics of God and how He is manifested toward man. But we can know as much as the Scriptures tell us.
First, God has predestined and called a group [Greek: ecclesia] commonly called church, out of the humanity of this world. This called out group is likened to virgins, a bride, brothers, Christ's body, and sons of God. Christ will marry this virgin bride body of believers who are the manifest sons of God for whom the whole creation is groaning. It is this body of believers that will reign with Christ and bring salvation to the entirety of the universe.
Second: Christ is the Image of the Invisible God. Christ is EVERYTHING that the Father is, only in the visible flesh of humanity. In that respect Christ IS our Father just as Isaiah prophesied. Jesus said to know Him is to KNOW THE FATHER. So, clearly, we know all that the Father is, THROUGH CHRIST! And that includes FATHERHOOD. Jesus Christ not only was a man, He is now and always will be A MAN. Notice that AFTER Jesus was resurrected and returned to the glory and splendor that He had in the beginning with God, that He is STILL called a MAN,
"For there is one God, and one Mediator of God and mankind, A MAN, Christ Jesus..." (I Tim. 2:5).
Try this: There is ONE GOD. Jesus Christ came OUT FROM God and is called the "Son OF God." The Holy Spirit comes OUT FROM God and is called the "spirit OF God." But God has bestowed on Jesus ALL THAT HE IS AND ALL THAT HE HAS, hence Jesus also has this SAME SPIRIT and therefore there is the "spirit OF Christ" which is the SAME spirit OF God. They BOTH possess the SAME SPIRIT. And as they possess the SAME SPIRIT, they are ONE!
God promises believers the obtaining of this same spirit also. Hence WE TOO become ONE WITH CHRIST AND OUR FATHER! Did I loose you yet? Furthermore, all of God's creatures will one day possess this same spirit and then God will be "All in ALL" (I Cor. 15;28)!!!
Certainly there is much we do not know, however, all that I have presented here can be substantiated by the Scriptures.
Hope that helps your understanding a little better. May God grant you a spirit of wisdom and understanding in these deep spiritually discerned matters.
Sincerely,
Ray :)
indianabob:
Thank you Dennis,
Please spell for me the other word that Ray referenced with Ekklesia in that bible study. I could not determine it for myself.
Thank you, Indiana Bob
Kat:
--- Quote --- Christ is EVERYTHING that the Father is,
.
.
But God has bestowed on Jesus ALL THAT HE IS AND ALL THAT HE HAS,
--- End quote ---
Rick, do you have Scripture for these 2 comments? If Christ is "everything" that the Father is, then are you saying they are one and the same? I don't believe that they are... the Son had a beginning, when He came forth. So throughout endless eternity what was the Father? Certainly there was something more to what He is than this creation... how/why could He bestow all that He has ever experienced on the Son?
Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
Rom 11:36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
Rev 3:14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:
The Son was brought forth to be God for this creation, that was His beginning, that is His purpose. That does not make Him separate from the Father, He is that part/extension of the Father for this purpose. But I believe there is very much more to the Father than this creation.
John 14:28 You have heard Me say to you, 'I am going away and coming back to you.' If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I.
John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Dave in Tenn:
Kat, Rick's post was a quote from Ray's reply to an email on the front page.
http://bible-truths.com/email5.htm#father
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