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question?
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on February 18, 2012, 10:35:25 PM ---See 1Corinthians 2:11, which discusses the spirit of man and the Spirit of God. All living things must have a spirit, given by God, in order to live. When a man dies, the spirit returns to God Who gave it, the body returns to dust, the soul ceases (goes away). The spirit in man is different from breath. Breath is a physical substance. Spirit is spirit. It returns to God from which all spirit comes.
--- End quote ---
Jerry is referring to the term 'breath of life', which is a metaphor for the spirit of man. He's not talking about oxygen.
Jerry, I received your PM but will answer here and hopefully avoid any more confusion:
--- The term 'breathe of life' is a metaphor for the spirit in all living creatures. That's the spirit Ray is referring to in his TV analogy of the human body. Each's one's spirit is unique as it is only sustaining that individual's life, but it does not hold your thoughts/personality. That would be your mind.
--- From your original question:
2 Cor 3:5-6 ...our sufficiency is from God, who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit;[a] for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life
This is the Holy Spirit, and the life it gives is 'eonian life'. Eonian life is not simply the ability to live in the next eon. For even the unjust will be resurrected to live in the next eon and beyond.
From 'Universal Salvation' thread (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5071.msg120000.html#msg120000):
Jesus tells us what eonian life is:
John 17:1-3 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal [eonian] life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal [eonian] life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
So to 'know' the Father and Jesus is what eonian life is. So what does it mean to 'know' Jesus and/or The Father? First, let's see what it means to NOT know Them:
Matt 7:22-23 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
From Jesus own words, we see that to 'practice lawlessness' is to not know Jesus. What about knowing or NOT knowing the Father?
John 8:19 ...they said to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also.”
Just a brief recap: If one practices lawlessness, that means they do not know Jesus. And to not know Jesus means to not know the Father.
Jesus says that eonian life IS to know Him. And to know Him means to know the Father. And obviously, to know them would be to NOT practice lawlessness (myth of free will, anyone?). And this is what eonian life is said to be.
Eonian life does not seem to have anything to do with a duration of time. And neither does eonian correction. They more or less describe a purpose, an action taking place...not a duration of the purpose they describe. But those are just my thoughts from reading the way Jesus talks about it.
Hope this helps,
Marques
Gina:
I must be really stupid.
I thought "breath of life" meant being made alive physically, only physically. Why can't it mean oxygen? We can't have a life without oxygen. Then again plants live off carbon monoxide and fish live off water. But even those things can't survive without oxygen.
God specifically said he "breathed into his nostrils" the breath of life. Why can't it mean air?
(haha, Do I sound like I'm typing a mile a minute? lol Marques, you're throwing me for a loop. Grrrr... ;D)
I thought the spirit that returns to God is the thing that causes a person to simply be made physically alive (animated?), and nothing else.
Then again, you can have the breath of life and be comatose, catatonic.
Then, when that breath is separated from the body, it goes back to God and the body is inanimate/inoperable/dead.
I thought breath of life meant oxygen. But then again, babies in the womb don't necessarily live off oxygen there, but they're alive and "breathing" amniotic fluid... and there's oxygen in it and in the mother.
Oh well. This is a fun interesting thread regardless.
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Gina on February 19, 2012, 08:11:50 AM ---I must be really stupid.
I thought "breath of life" meant being made alive physically, only physically. Why can't it mean oxygen? We can't have a life without oxygen. Then again plants live off carbon monoxide and fish live off water. But even those things can't survive without oxygen.
God specifically said he "breathed into his nostrils" the breath of life. Why can't it mean air?
(haha, Do I sound like I'm typing a mile a minute? lol Marques, you're throwing me for a loop. Grrrr... ;D)
I thought the spirit that returns to God is the thing that causes a person to simply be made physically alive (animated?), and nothing else.
Then again, you can have the breath of life and be comatose, catatonic.
Then, when that breath is separated from the body, it goes back to God and the body is inanimate/operable/dead.
I thought breath of life meant oxygen. But then again, babies in the womb don't necessarily live off oxygen there, but they're alive and "breathing" amniotic fluid... and there's oxygen in it and in the mother.
Oh well. This is a fun interesting thread regardless.
--- End quote ---
Think of Paul's words that JFK referenced:
1 Cor 2:11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him?
Paul's not asking 'what man knows the things of a man except the oxygen which is in him'. Breath of life is a metaphor, but it's referring to the spirit in a living being and that spirit returns to the Father at death. The oxygen in the body is not returning to God at death.
Marques
Kat:
Hi thetruth.
--- Quote ---Because if He implanted ...His Spirit... then thats different than this "Breathe of life"Because as I am understanding it.. this Breathe of life is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than The Holy SPIRIT.So which is it ...WHEN God breathed in the nostrills of man...was it The Holy Spirit OR the "breathe of life"?
--- End quote ---
The breathe of life is the way/process given to each being on this earth to live, because that is the way that God designed it, that we must draw breath to live. It is God that gives life/breath and sustains this process by His spirit to all creatures (man and animal). So it is this spirit of life from God that each creature needs to live in this world and to each being the spirit they have provides what we need to know how to live.
Now God is able to use His Spirit in whatever manner He chooses and to give life to physical creatures is one way He uses it, to give spiritual life is another. So He can use His Spirit in those He chooses in another way, not to provide just physical life, but as a "Comforter" or "Spirit of truth" or "Holy Spirit," that is required to be indwelling to teach spiritual knowledge (concepts beyond the physical).
John 15:26 And when the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He shall testify of Me.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.
God gives life/spirit/breath for us to live this life, to animals and humans. But we requires His Spirit in another way in a different form so we can move on towards Life in the spiritual realm, which is the indwelling of His Holy Spirit/Comforter which will bring us to a oneness with God, so that we can brought on to Life eonian/immortality.
John 17:22 And I have given them the glory which You have given Me, that they may be one, even as We are one,
v. 23 I in them, and You in Me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them as You have loved Me.
It's all of God and He works through His Spirit in all the ways that He needs to to bring about His plan.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Gina:
--- Quote ---Think of Paul's words that JFK referenced:
1 Cor 2:11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him?
Paul's not asking 'what man knows the things of a man except the oxygen which is in him'. Breath of life is a metaphor, but it's referring to the spirit in a living being and that spirit returns to the Father at death. The oxygen in the body is not returning to God at death.
Marques
--- End quote ---
Thanks, Marques. Now I feel even stupider. (Is stupider even a word?)
I was thinking the spirit that Paul was talking about was our "soul" or our consciousness. I thought the breath that God breathed into Adam was the same breath* that we all are given, but that our souls are what are unique -- not our spirit. I didn't realize our spirits are unique -- isn't that what you said? It's like everyone's bodies (DNA) are knit together differently/uniquely, and the spirit simply is what makes our bodies animated/come to life -- whereby we become a "unique" living soul. I mean, to say that the spirit breath is unique for each individual would be like saying that the electricity that makes my hairdryer operate is different from the electricity that makes my stove turn on. Or something ... like that. :-\
_________
Edit: * Ecc. 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Edit #2: I wouldn't dare claim that oxygen/breath of life is just "oxygen." It's something magnificent that God gave us and causes us to be made alive and be able to use our minds. Deprived of it for more than a few minutes, most people become severely brain damaged. Oxygen can spark life in a drowned person or a heart attack victim who is all but dead. It's nothing to sneeze at. It's what God uses to quicken a baby in the womb. Did I mention that it sparks life? :D
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