> General Discussions
Spiritual body seperate from flesh
Brett:
--- Quote from: YellowStone on July 25, 2006, 09:31:51 AM ---Brett asked:
One question, Jesus rise from dead and He has spiritual body but invisible because Spirit is invisible, then Jesus somehow become like physical so the disciples can see Him. He was not literal flesh and blood but look like a form of body so that disciples can handle Him or touch His body.
Brett, all I know is what the scriptures state. :)
Luk 24:37
* But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luk 24:38
* And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luk 24:39
* Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Was Jesus lying? Did not Paul say that Jesus became a "quickening spirit?" There has been much contention regarding what happened to Jesus' body. How come the disciples could see and feel it. I have a hard time believing that Jesus deceived his trusted loyal followers. There must be more to a "quickening spirit?" than an invisible being/force.
Strongs Concordance (2227)
zoopoieo {dzo-op-oy-eh'-o}
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) to produce alive, begat or bear living young
2) to cause to live, make alive, give life
a) by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate
b) to restore to life
c) to give increase of life: thus of physical life
d) of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life
3) metaph., of seeds quickened into life, i.e. germinating, springing up, growing
I believe with all my heart that these words are to instruct us.
1Cr 15:42
* So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43
* It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44
* It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
That there was a body is a given, is it a natural body? NO! :)
Is it perfect, imperishable and incorruptible? YES!
Does it have flesh that can be touched? YES!
Did the spiritual body ascend to heaven? I believe so, but will stand corrected.
Rom 8:11
* But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you
Once again, comments welcomes
--- End quote ---
Daren,
Thanks for showing the scriptures.
You said:
Does it have flesh that can be touched? YES!
You mean our old flesh and blood will bring death then in future we will resurrection with new flesh and blood as spiritual body? Since the scripture say flesh and blood cannot inherit the kindgom of God (1 Cor. 15:50). It didn't say "old flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." It seem to me that old and new flesh/blood will not inherit the kingdom of God. The spiritual body are not the same as flesh and blood from what I understand in 1 Cor. chapter 15. So, did Jesus' reserrection have both flesh/blood and spiritual body, too? I am not saying Jesus is lying, no, but I am just hungry for His truth to clear my mind and hope someone can help if God willing.
In Rom. 8:11 didn't say anything about us raise from dead with mortal, but this mean that if Jesus never raised from dead, then the Spirit (Helper/Comforter) will never come in us, but God did raise Jesus from dead now we have His Spirit to our spiritual while live on earth. Let's look from Rotherham in Rom. 8:11, if you don't mind ;):
If, moreover, the Spirit of him that raised Jesus from among the dead dwelleth in you, he that raised from among the dead Christ Jesus, shall make alive even your death-doomed bodies, through means of his indwelling Spirit within you.
Brett :)
YellowStone:
Brett wrote:
Daren,
Thanks for showing the scriptures.
You said:
Does it have flesh that can be touched? YES!
You mean our old flesh and blood will bring death then in future we will resurrection with new flesh and blood as spiritual body? Since the scripture say flesh and blood cannot inherit the kindgom of God (1 Cor. 15:50). It didn't say "old flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God."
Yep, it sure didn't mention anything about new or old flesh. But let's look at what the scriptures do say:
Luk 24:39
* Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. [/color]
Here Jesus is asserting to those who doubted that it is he himself. He said to them to touch and hold him. Then he said that he could not be a spirit for a spirit does not have flesh and bones. What did Jesus have then? He had the spiritual body in which he was resurrected, the old natural body had passed away.
1Cr 15:44
* It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.[/color]
So are we clear on the fact the body in which the disciples and Mary saw, was a spiritual body. Not a spirit, but a spiritual body, that is free from sin, perfect, incorruptible and inperishable fit for life in his kingdom. Why would Jesus need such a body? Because it is the fulfillment of scripture:
1Cr 15:42
* So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43
* It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: [/color]
What was sown? It was his natural body. What was raised? his spiritual body. :)
Brett wrote:
It seem to me that old and new flesh/blood will not inherit the kingdom of God. The spiritual body are not the same as flesh and blood from what I understand in 1 Cor. chapter 15. So, did Jesus' reserrection have both flesh/blood and spiritual body, too? I am not saying Jesus is lying, no, but I am just hungry for His truth to clear my mind and hope someone can help if God willing.
You are right, I do not believe that "flesh and blood" body is the same as a spiritual body, but Jesus's body must have been raised.
In John 2:19-21, Jesus said, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up." The Jews therefore said, 'It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?' But He was speaking of the temple of his body."
Notice that Jesus was speaking of His body. Remember what Jesus said in Luk 24:39 "for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."
He did not say Flesh and Blood. Nor were we given any evidence of blood on his wounds, because Jesus’ blood was shed on the cross. Paul wrote of this:
Hbr 9:12
* Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us]. [/color]
Did you notice: but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place. He paid the price with his blood and was therefore (I believe) raised into a bloodless spiritual body. This now shows how he could ascend into the holy place. :)
In Rom. 8:11 didn't say anything about us raise from dead with mortal, but this mean that if Jesus never raised from dead, then the Spirit (Helper/Comforter) will never come in us, but God did raise Jesus from dead now we have His Spirit to our spiritual while live on earth. Let's look from Rotherham in Rom. 8:11, if you don't mind :
If, moreover, the Spirit of him that raised Jesus from among the dead dwelleth in you, he that raised from among the dead Christ Jesus, shall make alive even your death-doomed bodies, through means of his indwelling Spirit within you.
Brett
No problem here, we can take comfort that Jesus gave his blood for us and died so that we might be saved.
This has been a great discussion. Did I help your understanding? :)
With Love,
Darren
nightmare sasuke:
--- Quote from: YellowStone on July 25, 2006, 09:55:53 PM ---He did not say Flesh and Blood. Nor were we given any evidence of blood on his wounds, because Jesus’ blood was shed on the cross. Paul wrote of this:
--- End quote ---
Another reason for this is because nephesh (soul) is in the blood, and Christ was raised a life-giving spirit, not a chay nephesh (living soul).
PS. I like your posts so far!
jerreye:
Hi all,
Isn't it true that Jesus did rise from the dead as a "life-giving SPIRIT"?
And, doesn't it say that a SPIRIT hath NOT flesh and bone (."..like you see/perceive that I/Jesus have.")?
I think if you add this all up, Jesus only APPEARED as a body of flesh and bone for the sake of the people. A natural man cannot see an invisible spirit being, thus Jesus had to APPEAR as a man of flesh and bone, so that men could actually perceive Him (not that He was literal flesh and bone). This is just what I see in the scriptures...is this what others here see as well?
Cheers,
Jeremy
Deedle:
Eph 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Hmmmm...
Deedle :)
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