> General Discussions
Satan's "Half" Lie/Truth??
newgene87:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on August 27, 2012, 09:58:12 PM ---Jesus taught that sin comes from within us, from our hearts.
Eve sinned before she ate the fruit. She lusted for it, from her heart, when she looked upon it, before she ate.
Ray discusses that point in his 2nd Lake of Fire article, a little ways down from the top.
http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html
--- End quote ---
oh that's a principle that i understood a while ago. I'm still not seeing they had knowledge before they ate of the tree. Ray pointed out they couldnt obey for, "oh that they had such an heart, to FEAR me..." (Deu 5:29). "fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge" - they clearly did not have the fear of God, but were foolish - "fools to despise wisdom and instruction (...you shall NOT eat)" (Prov 1:7). And it's "out of the heart that proceeds....EVIL THOUGHTS (not knowledge), FOOLISHNESS" (Mark 7:22). she truly did not..."...understand what she was saying, or what she was confidently affirming" (1Tim 1:7). At least i see it from among the many scriptures i presented. but aye, it's okay. The point is, the tree was vital for man to become the image of God. truly, For the eons, the tree of Life will be available to the nations :) :) (Rev 22:2)
and i'm just realizing; i QUOTED from that paper in my comment above ;). i was reading that today and that's what brought this understanding to my mind. but Ray said nothing of prior knowledge. He hinted the opposite, "To truly "know" both good and evil they HAD to partake of its source, which was the "TREE of the knowledge of good and evil," which then DEMANDED that they SIN in order to obtain this "knowledge." NO OTHER TREE IN THE GARDEN POSSESSED THIS NEEDED KNOWLEDGE"
Eugene
newgene87:
i found this interesting too...they didnt even KNOW they were naked.....
"And (1) the eyes of them both were opened, and (2) they knew that they were naked (Gen 3:7)
"and knowest not that thou art... blind, and naked" (Rev 3:17)
That's interesting to know and perceive a Law of God but don't even know you're naked. So if they were naked, they were blind - naked, exposed to tempation (too easy) and blind to what God had said. They didnt know; they were blind and naked. As said, they didnt see till afterwards and they looked back. i just had to share that. like i said, STILL GROWING. In his word
mharrell08:
Eugene, what is your point?
First you argue that Satan told some truth, even though he is referred to as the father of lies.
Then Eve was unable to know good/evil even though she specifically told Satan what was good and not good to do in the garden.
Then after every comment, you make a point about being open to learning yet you are obviously not. You seem to want to explain your revelations and only want to hear someone agree with you. That's not how this forum works and also the key reason we don't allow teaching on the forum.
newgene87:
--- Quote from: mharrell08 on August 27, 2012, 10:36:14 PM ---Eugene, what is your point?
First you argue that Satan told some truth, even though he is referred to as the father of lies.
Then Eve was unable to know good/evil even though she specifically told Satan what was good and not good to do in the garden.
Then after every comment, you make a point about being open to learning yet you are obviously not. You seem to want to explain your revelations and only want to hear someone agree with you. That's not how this forum works and also the key reason we don't allow teaching on the forum.
--- End quote ---
wow. whether you believe it or not; i take EVERYTHING everyone says and apply it to my understanding. isnt a "forum discussion" the point to SHARE thoughts? so we cant share thoughts? by all means, judge them and I will learn; AND I DO LEARN....but that was uncalled for. So the devil also lied when he quoted Psalm 91:11-12 in Luke 4:10-11??? No, but Jesus rebuked him telling him, "thou shalt not TEMPT the Lord..." not lie to him. Submitting is not a problem though after this
Eugene
Dave in Tenn:
Did they "know" they were naked in Gen 2:25? There was nothing wrong with their eyes. They could look at themselves and each other and "see". They were unashamed. Why? Because they didn't know any better or different. They had no knowledge of good and evil.
Did Eve "know" about the tree? It was planted in the middle of the garden so they would not miss it, and it looked awful good to them. Did Eve come to know about the commandment? Yes, she did. Did she know what was in her heart to do? Yes, "And seeing is the woman that the tree is good for food, and that it brings a yearning to the eyes, and is to be coveted as the tree to make one intelligent." Lust of the Flesh, Lust of the Eye, the Pride of Life. So we can't say Eve knew nothing. She knew the tree, she knew the commandment, she knew what was in her heart to do. When the temptation came, she did what was in her heart to do.
The CLV translates Gen 3:7 And unclosing are their eyes, they two, and knowing are they that they are naked. And sewing are they fig leaves and making for themselves girdle skirts." No longer not knowing better or different. No longer 'unashamed'. The knowledge of Good and Evil.
The LORD removes them from the garden and tells them what life is going to be like. That is the EXPERIENCE of evil "whereby to humble" them, all the days of their lives. There is also the knowledge of Good in the fruit of the tree. It doesn't come without the knowledge of evil. Niether does the knowledge of evil come without the knowledge of good. It takes both.
One more thought that might be helpful, assuming any of the above has been. :-\ God doesn't 'allow' evil, or 'turn evil into good', but INTENDS evil FOR good. He's never thwarted, and always wins in the end.
One more more thought. It's 'preacher talk' to always equate obedience and disobedience with good and evil. They are not always the same things. GOOD and EVIL are the big picture. Eve disobeyed and that is an evil, but "...grief and the groaning of your pregnancy..." is an evil, but not disobedience.
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