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I need an educated teacher
Dennis Vogel:
--- Quote from: Arion on March 01, 2013, 10:14:35 AM ---
--- Quote from: Nickreading1984 on March 01, 2013, 08:47:18 AM ---I'm pretty sure God still wants us to fear him and I don't see how you can without believing in Eternal Hellfire
-Nick
--- End quote ---
Nick,
What is your Father like. If he is/was a harsh and evil man I suppose it's understandable that you might think that God is the same. If you have a good father ask yourself if your dad wants you to be afraid of him or if your old enough to be a father yourself would you want your son to be afraid of you? And would you want your son to respect and obey you only because he felt you were going to take a belt to him and whip him unmercifully? If not, then how could you think a perfect and loving God (Who states in his written word that 'God is love' and 'Love never fails') would want you to obey and worship him because your terrified to death of him? See what this 'hell' teaching of the church has done to you?
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You simply have not lived long enough to fear God out of what He can do and save you from.
Sooner or later a loved one or yourself will be in great distress then you will understand.
This probably will not make sense, but I fear, respect, and am in awe of God but I am not afraid of Him.
Samson:
--- Quote from: Nickreading1984 on March 01, 2013, 08:47:18 AM ---Thanks, guys. but, about the fear thing. Phil 2:12 says that believers should work out their salvation with fear and trembling. I know perfect love drives out all fear, but Ecc 12:13 still COMMMANDS to fear God and keep his commandments.
I can't help but think I'm talking to a bunch of vipers, of whom it can be said that there is no fear of God before their eyes (romans 3:18)
I'm pretty sure God still wants us to fear him and I don't see how you can without believing in Eternal Hellfire
-Nick
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Hi Nick,
Everybody did an excellent Job in explaining my favorite Bible related Topic regarding Aion and it's derivatives Aions(Ages or Eons) and most importantly Aionios, the adjective of Aion which literally means pertaining or belonging to the Ages. An Adjective can't be defined with a totally different meaning than the Noun it's derived from, it would be grammatically incorrect. Alexander Thomson, a Scottish/Irish inventor who happens to be a Greek Etymologist/Linguist that did a thorough word study on Aion & it's derivatives; Aions & Aionios. He included the Latin Aeternus & Seculum in His study and proved conclusively that none of these words meant endless. Ray quotes from Him in His paper entitled: Is Everlasting Scriptural. Ray quotes from Alexander Thomson(s) fine Paper: Whence Eternity ! How Eternity slipped In, I've read that several times and have no doubt that Aionios, the adjective of Aion never means " Endless."
Some quotes from Ray's paper:
Comment: The word "eternal" comes from the Latin "aeternum" which in the first century meant virtually the same as the word "seculum," and in fact, Jerome sometimes rendered "aion" aeternus, and in other places he renders "aion" as seculum. They were considered virtually synonyms. Here is the how Latin dictionaries define, seculum—"a generation, an age, the world, the times, the SPIRIT OF THE TIMES, and a period of a hundred years." (Caps mine).
Trajan, Roman emperor from 98 to 117 AD spoke of seculum as the time he lived in. Tertullian, born about 160 AD refers to "a mighty shock impending over the entire world, and the conclusion of the seculum itself." Lactantius, born about 260 AD speaks of the "learned ones of this seculum." Eusebius, early Church historian, born about 265 AD gives the account of a martyrs’ trail in which Speratus, the martyrs’ leader, replied, "The empire of this seculum [world] I do not recognize."
We read this from the work, Whence Eternity by Scholar and Expert in the Greek language, Alexander Thomson, "Long ago in Rome, periodic games were held, which were called ‘secular’ games. Herodian, the historian, writing in Greek about the end of the second or beginning of the third century, call these ‘eonian’ games. In no sense were the games eternal. Eonian did not mean eternal any more than a seculum meant eternity" (Page 12).
Comment: Yes, "IF" indeed. Let me assure you that "aionios" did not mean "eternal" by the people that "used the language when the Bible was written." If that were true, there would have been no reason whatsoever for Justinian to call a council in 540 wherein he labored to add the word "endless" to the Greek "aionios" life. He knew and conceded that "aionios" was not endless, and so insisted in the Church inserting the word "endless" before it to signify "endless life" and "endless punishment."
Also Nick, you quoted Philippians. 2:12, but forgot to complete the thought expressed in it's fullness by not quoting verse 13, found below.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
The fear and trembling in verse 12 is resulting from God working in us. Look at what Paul experienced after God used His Spirit to work in Paul after His conversion, the trials and suffering were not pleasant.
Kind Regards, Samson.
Rhys 🕊:
--- Quote from: Nickreading1984 on March 01, 2013, 08:47:18 AM ---Thanks, guys. but, about the fear thing. Phil 2:12 says that believers should work out their salvation with fear and trembling. I know perfect love drives out all fear, but Ecc 12:13 still COMMMANDS to fear God and keep his commandments.
I can't help but think I'm talking to a bunch of vipers, of whom it can be said that there is no fear of God before their eyes (romans 3:18)
I'm pretty sure God still wants us to fear him and I don't see how you can without believing in Eternal Hellfire
-Nick
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Hi Nick
God's word shows there is no Hell and there is plenty that Ray says about it as well.
From my own experience through life I never really believed in hell when preached in church. I just bought into it as you were suppose to. I've always struggled with the fact that God would accept me and not everyone else. When I sinned and fell short of the mark He was always there to pick me up and I felt His love so strong. It's the I didn't choose Him He has choosen me. So why does He do that for me and not everyone. The thing is he will do it for all. What kind of God would He be otherwise, not a very great one I would say. Seems absurd to me that He would just pick out certain ones for no good reason. Why pick out me I'm definitely nothing special and I know that all to well. I've come to that truth that He will save all because He loves all and nothing will stop Him from doing His will. I've come to know and understand God's love more and more over the last few years and it's amazing how big and vast it is. God is so so so GREAT and when you see it everything falls into place.
God bless you my friend and keep looking to Him and seek Him. You will get there one day as we will all. He's been so loving to me and He will be to you to.
Rhys
ICXCNIKA:
--- Quote from: Rhys on March 01, 2013, 11:17:15 PM ---He's been so loving to me and He will be to you to.
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If ever there were a simple, concise, and yet, profound way to explain "The Good News", that would be it! Thank you Rhys.
Nickreading1984:
well, guys, I'm still reading LOF, but the poblem I have with a lot of these rationales is this:
No, it doesn't make sense to me that God would just pick some for eternal life and others for eternal torture. Yes, it seems horrible. But our standard is not God's. IF (notice I say IF) God says that's what he's gonna do; we gotta love it or burn. It's that simple.
So, while I can certainly relate to people saying that God must not send people to Hell if he loves everyone, that's leaning on your own understanding. Cold, hard scripture is all I'm interested in. Thanks.
-Nick
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