> General Discussions
Gen 1 v 26 Gen 2v 7 & 9 2 creations ??
Dave in Tenn:
Were the plants and animals formed after man? Read Genesis 2 as if it's another "creation account" and you have man first, then plants, then animals, then woman which is not the "order" of Genesis 1 by a long shot. Something is going on here that at the very least demands reconciling the two accounts--IF indeed, they are TWO SEPARATE ACCOUNTS.
Read Genesis 2, on the other hand, as two descriptions of the same account, then why the difference in order?
I want to know firstly what these words mean--especially what is translated 'create' and what is translated 'formed'.
Something deep inside of me is unable to believe that Jewish and Christian tradition finally got one right.
Kat:
Hi Dave,
I'll give you my opinion on chapter 2. If you look at the very beginning it shows God had "finished" the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.
v. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
v. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
So it was "finished," but then you have God "formed man" Adam (verse 7) and "planted a garden" (verse 08)... I believe God had finished His original work of the creation of all life forms way before chapter 2, because He said it was finished. So in chapter 2 this is a special creation work beginning done after all of the that.
Gen 2:5 before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground;
In verse 5 there is a 2 fold problem, no plants and herbs were growing, all over the earth? No, I think this is speaking of this particular place where the garden would be. Also that verse gives the reason why there were no plants there, no rain and no man that knew how to farm/cultivate/till it (I believe the people before Adam were hunter/gatherers).
So God went about preparing this particular place/garden, He "caused in to rain" on a already prepared/seeded land (chapter 1), so it would grow lush. Now the place was ready and God formed a person, Adam and put him there to teach him, because I believe Adam was the source of a lot of information needed to get this new race started. This would be the beginning of God's work on the salvation of all mankind.
Well that's my take on it, it seems to fit to me anyway.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Ian 155:
Santgen
One can also presume that Abel was a type of Christ thus was a parable About the world "Killing" Jesus -so once again the formulas we try and use wont make sense re bloodline - here is what it means.... i put 2 corresponding verses down below
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Ray is right its all one thing --- and it is explained thru the various characters in the book and there are 100's and ...Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
So whether we believe Adam represents Man in THE FLESH state (carnal) or The blood of Abel being likened to the blood of Jesus or Cain being a type of John the baptist your and my understanding would differ unless we get placed in a place of agreement so that we might walk together...
Gen 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground (logic worship) an offering unto the LORD.
Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
The genealogies are not important if fact we are told to avoid arguments about genealogies, what is important is that we understand the process...I believe that would cause repentance leading up to salvation - all these characters were made by God and for our God and God would direct us in his time to see/understand his word...I must be honest most of it is above my fireplace although... it is given to the elect to see and to them, not.
still praying and asking
santgem:
--- Quote from: Ian 155 on June 29, 2014, 02:29:35 AM ---Santgen
One can also presume that Abel was a type of Christ thus was a parable About the world "Killing" Jesus -so once again the formulas we try and use wont make sense re bloodline - here is what it means.... i put 2 corresponding verses down below
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Ray is right its all one thing --- and it is explained thru the various characters in the book and there are 100's and ...Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
So whether we believe Adam represents Man in THE FLESH state (carnal) or The blood of Abel being likened to the blood of Jesus or Cain being a type of John the baptist your and my understanding would differ unless we get placed in a place of agreement so that we might walk together...
Gen 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground (logic worship) an offering unto the LORD.
Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
The genealogies are not important if fact we are told to avoid arguments about genealogies, what is important is that we understand the process...I believe that would cause repentance leading up to salvation - all these characters were made by God and for our God and God would direct us in his time to see/understand his word...I must be honest most of it is above my fireplace although... it is given to the elect to see and to them, not.
still praying and asking
--- End quote ---
Hi Ian,
Greetings!
In my point of view genealogies are important. People are confused regarding the sons of God. They are perceiving that these are the fallen angels who took wives for the daughters of men and populate. We all know that angel cannot marry because they don't have their tools(except you disagree on this).
Yes, maybe Abel is a type of Christ but there will be no descendants that comes from Abel because he was killed.
When Abel died, the role of Abel has taken by Seth in such a way that Abel descendants which did not materialize was fulfilled in Seth descendants. It is in his descendants that men began to call upon the name of the LORD. Well you can consider also Seth as Christ type.
When we look at the bible history, God forbid His people not to marry with those who were not their kind. Will also God forbid sons of God to marry daughter of men?
let us see;
Israelites Specifically Told Not to Marry the Foreigners in Their Midst.
When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. Deu 7:1-4
On what grounds that God forbid them not to marry who were not their kind, is because They will turn away thy son from following me.Yes they will turn against God and follow their evil way.
Now, as Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, will his descendants that marries the "sons of God" will not do the same?
They have dealt treacherously against God: for they have begotten strange children. (Hosea 5:7)
The Israelites were told that they were a special people and to stay separate from all the other people (Exodus 33:16; Leviticus 20:24-26; Numbers 23:9; Deuteronomy 32:8; 1 Kings 8:51-53; Acts 17:26). They were a people holy to the Lord their God, chosen to be His own possession (Deuteronomy 7:6; 14:2, 32:8, 9).(taken from other site)
In Hebrews 12:16 God calls Esau a fornicator. Was Esau guilty of sex outside of marriage? No! Esau had married wives that were not of his race (Genesis 26:34) and violated the law of kind after his kind.(taken from other site)
There are a lot in the bible, Abraham and the likes.....
What i am saying is that God created good and evil, believers and not believers, man and woman, black and white, Adam and Eve, that contrast.
If there are believers in the descendant of Seth, there are also non believers in the descendant of Cain.
When the sons of God met the daughters of men the good and evil once again arise!
dave:
--- Quote from: Kat on June 25, 2014, 09:03:11 PM ---
Hi Dave,
I'll give you my opinion on chapter 2. If you look at the very beginning it shows God had "finished" the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.
v. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
v. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
So it was "finished," but then you have God "formed man" Adam (verse 7) and "planted a garden" (verse 08)... I believe God had finished His original work of the creation of all life forms way before chapter 2, because He said it was finished. So in chapter 2 this is a special creation work beginning done after all of the that.
Gen 2:5 before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground;
In verse 5 there is a 2 fold problem, no plants and herbs were growing, all over the earth? No, I think this is speaking of this particular place where the garden would be. Also that verse gives the reason why there were no plants there, no rain and no man that knew how to farm/cultivate/till it (I believe the people before Adam were hunter/gatherers).
So God went about preparing this particular place/garden, He "caused in to rain" on a already prepared/seeded land (chapter 1), so it would grow lush. Now the place was ready and God formed a person, Adam and put him there to teach him, because I believe Adam was the source of a lot of information needed to get this new race started. This would be the beginning of God's work on the salvation of all mankind.
Well that's my take on it, it seems to fit to me anyway.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Personally I like that offering. I also believe, imo, that God created humanity, and when Paul writes 1Co 15:45 so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit,
1Co 15:46 but that which is spiritual is not first, but that which was natural, afterwards that which is spiritual.
Paul is revealing to us that the formed living soul of Gen. 2:7 is where our journey, our walk, our learning begins, with this man.
Then I also have been given to accept that Genesis is literal, and yet is parable and allegory. But that is just me.
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