> General Discussions
General Questions
Mike Gagne:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on September 27, 2014, 04:08:37 PM ---
--- Quote from: zander on September 27, 2014, 12:32:04 PM ---Thanks.
So as I see it then at the moment, we are raised as PHYSICAL bodies. Strange, as I always thought I recalled Ray saying that being judged as a spirit, you could still be judged as spiritual flesh. My spirit is clearly still flesh, so whether I am judged in the physical or the spiritual I am still judged as flesh (hate that word lol). Then there is Ray saying he will never see his physical body anymore after he dies. I am sure Ray was not arrogant enough to assume he was one of the elect, at least he never came across that way.
To be fair the resurrection poses a raft of other questions for me:
When Christ arrives, what happens to physical people - believers and non?
When the dead are resurrected - and there are millions/billions? of them - how do they fit into this planet all of a sudden?
What exactly happens here once Jesus is here?
Many questions but I am not expecting straightforward answers.
--- End quote ---
Zander, a lot of your questions about the Resurrection can be answered by reading ray's papers.
Revelation says the "Sea will be no more," while this can be and is indeed a spiritual saying--The sea of humanity will be no more, the carnal God hating sea of humanity. It could also be literal; That is, the sea will vanish to provide room for the billions and billions of humans that will be resurrected. I'm speculating on the second more literal interpretation but I hope you understand that your questions have answers, you just need to study these things and most of them are already explained to you by ray in an eloquent and easy to understand manner.
God be with you,
Alex
--- End quote ---
ok Alex I see that if you need the Book of Revelation to be literal then for you its literal?........but if anybody else needs it to be literal then you jump all over them and tell them who they are using scriptures and you yourself contradict what you say, lol I don't get it...Quote from: Mike Gagne on October 25, 2014, 02:01:00 AM
? The number of those who are sealed , 144.000 , does LRay talk on this number? Is that the number of how many are the elect? Is this a literal number? Can numbers be symbols? If we can't add or take away would that make this number mean what it says 144.000? Can we get the truth of this number from the word?
Hey Mike,
This is not literal. Remember revelations was "SIGNIFIED" to John and that Christ's words are "SPIRIT."
Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"
John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.".... Okay Alex I won't use the scriptures to say anything you, P.S Alex it is the Book of Revelation, not revelations!! Oh ya Jesus said to pray for those who persecute you, May God bless you Alex and his will be done in your life!!
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Mike Gagne on November 01, 2014, 10:29:16 PM ---
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on September 27, 2014, 04:08:37 PM ---
--- Quote from: zander on September 27, 2014, 12:32:04 PM ---Thanks.
So as I see it then at the moment, we are raised as PHYSICAL bodies. Strange, as I always thought I recalled Ray saying that being judged as a spirit, you could still be judged as spiritual flesh. My spirit is clearly still flesh, so whether I am judged in the physical or the spiritual I am still judged as flesh (hate that word lol). Then there is Ray saying he will never see his physical body anymore after he dies. I am sure Ray was not arrogant enough to assume he was one of the elect, at least he never came across that way.
To be fair the resurrection poses a raft of other questions for me:
When Christ arrives, what happens to physical people - believers and non?
When the dead are resurrected - and there are millions/billions? of them - how do they fit into this planet all of a sudden?
What exactly happens here once Jesus is here?
Many questions but I am not expecting straightforward answers.
--- End quote ---
Zander, a lot of your questions about the Resurrection can be answered by reading ray's papers.
Revelation says the "Sea will be no more," while this can be and is indeed a spiritual saying--The sea of humanity will be no more, the carnal God hating sea of humanity. It could also be literal; That is, the sea will vanish to provide room for the billions and billions of humans that will be resurrected. I'm speculating on the second more literal interpretation but I hope you understand that your questions have answers, you just need to study these things and most of them are already explained to you by ray in an eloquent and easy to understand manner.
God be with you,
Alex
--- End quote ---
ok Alex I see that if you need the Book of Revelation to be literal then for you its literal?........but if anybody else needs it to be literal then you jump all over them and tell them who they are using scriptures and you yourself contradict what you say, lol I don't get it...Quote from: Mike Gagne on October 25, 2014, 02:01:00 AM
? The number of those who are sealed , 144.000 , does LRay talk on this number? Is that the number of how many are the elect? Is this a literal number? Can numbers be symbols? If we can't add or take away would that make this number mean what it says 144.000? Can we get the truth of this number from the word?
Hey Mike,
This is not literal. Remember revelations was "SIGNIFIED" to John and that Christ's words are "SPIRIT."
Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"
John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.".....
Okay Alex I won't use the scriptures to say anything you,
P.S Alex it is the Book of Revelation, not revelations!!
--- End quote ---
Hmm, I sense a lot of hostility comming from you mike and I can't figure out why.
I don't even think you asked me a question in the post you made so I'm not sure what to say to you other than perhaps you mis-interpreted my original response to Zander?
I'll bold and highlight something that I emphasized.
Notice that I admitted I was speculating and truth be told I don't like the literal interpretations of revelation for reasons you pointed out through quoting a responce I made to you: That revelation was signified to John and that Christ's words are spirit.
You are absolutely correct in saying that it is "revelation" and not "revelationS." I suppose its an old habit that hasn't died yet.
In Christ,
Alex
rick:
Rom 14:3 The person who will eat anything is not to despise the one who doesn't; while the one who eats only vegetables is not to pass judgment on the one who will eat anything; for God has accepted that person. ;)
Kat:
It seems to me that just as the church want to see everything literal, but we don't want to just see everything spiritual either. Yes the parables that Christ spoke of portray a higher spiritual meaning than just the literal story, but this literal world is very real and plays an important part in God's plan. I think we can get so caught up in looking for the spiritual aspect of things that we may forget that the physical comes first.
1Cor 15:46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
What I'm trying to say is that this natural world was made to serve a very grand purpose and it is a very delicate balance to see the spiritual teachings in the physical... but there is still the physical/natural first.
One thing that I will point out is that Christ certainly comes to His elect now through the Holy Spirit indwelling and it is teaching and preparing them so that they can serve/rule with Him. We know He will raise the elect first and then they will accompany Him in a literal return to the physical world to set up His government, and there will need to be a literal/physical system, as well as spiritual, to rule this physical world. What do you think all of the prophets, patriarchs, the righteous rulers of Israel and John the Baptist will be doing? They already have shown there their faithfulness and ability to rule, they need to be brought to know Christ and repentance... but would they still be serving in His government?
Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven:
It's all perfectly planned and there is no doubt that it will all work out in an organized way, without any confusion. I think we all will be amazed to see how everything will be done in such a perfect way to meet every need and show how awesome our God is.
1Cor 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Ian 155:
--- Quote from: Kat link=topic=15860.msg142695#msg142695 date=1414942525 ---
1Cor 15:46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
--- End quote ---
Hi Kat
I'm inclined to believe that this statement of Paul is describing the order of things where-
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. ....
and
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Tells us how it is.
If one is, for instance,to stay carnal , one will not comprehend the truth (enter the kingdom)
What are your thoughts ?
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