> General Discussions
All from Adam and Noah?
zvezda:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on April 30, 2015, 10:27:15 AM ---
--- Quote from: zvezda on April 30, 2015, 07:59:22 AM ---
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on April 29, 2015, 08:26:53 PM ---All the scriptures harmonize perfectly when you come to realize that adam wasn't the first man on the earth, just the first man to till the earth and dress it (farmer).
--- End quote ---
I am not so sure about Adam being the first farmer, humans started farming about 12,000 years ago (10,000 BC). It seems that there were farmers long before Adam, do some research on history of agriculture if you like.
--- End quote ---
Hi Zvezda,
I don't have a problem with the dating being off. Its not off very much. I understand the dating techniques used in science, I am a cellular biologist by study, and we humans aren't without error in our study of the past. Our techniques are subject to their own limitations as well as human error. A perfect example of this is the current Egyptian chronology and the fierce debate that is currently going on to revise it. When you look this far back into the past, with nothing but fragments of it remaining, the image you get is quiet murky and unclear. Mistakes are made. What I do trust without a doubt is God and His timeline.
God bless,
Alex
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Joel on April 30, 2015, 08:10:29 PM ---I agree Alex that dating issues are a problem that as of now are mostly unresolved.
--- End quote ---
It reminds me of those christains who are still in babylon, when I talked to them about the fossil evidence that Adam was not the first human, they said the similar reasons (dating methods are not reliable, humans aren't without error, etc) to reject all the researches and deny there were people before Adam.
There's no verse that says Adam was the first farmer, is there? Genesis 2:5 only says there was not a man to till the ground, it doesn't say Adam was the first man to till the ground. I don't think it contradicts God's words even if there were farmers long before Adam. The bible doesn't tell us a lot about what happened before Adam. All I said in my previous post was that if you like you can do some research, then you can decide if you still think Adam was the first farmer.
lurquer:
--- Quote from: zvezda on May 01, 2015, 09:36:49 AM ---
There's no verse that says Adam was the first farmer, is there? Genesis 2:5 only says there was not a man to till the ground, it doesn't say Adam was the first man to till the ground. I don't think it contradicts God's words even if there were farmers long before Adam.
--- End quote ---
Hmmm...Zvezda makes a good point. Indeed, you have to pay attention to all the words!
lurquer:
--- Quote from: Kat on April 29, 2015, 10:27:04 PM ---
In Gen. 1:26-27 "created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them," this is the first creation of human beings. Not as a herd, Bob, but a single man and woman that God started with, probably many thousands of years before Adam and Eve. Possibly similar to what scientist say, where they gradually spread out across the world.
Then at the time appointed God "formed" Adam (Gen 2:7), this was the beginning of His plan of salvation for mankind, through that lineage.
--- End quote ---
I know we talked about having 'different ancestors' before, but still, I'm not at all clear on this question... What do you mean when you say "God formed" Adam? If he was physically (biologically) a unique creature (not a mixing and replication of existing genes via sexual reproduction), then he had no ancestry--no lineage--"Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God".
Like the King of Salem.
So two different creations of "man", and two different lineages...
Or, did you mean that "Adam" was 'formed, i.e., born/begotten/descended' from the earlier race? In which case, what did God actually DO? (A Damascus road experience?)
The former: Two separate Creations, unrelated. The latter: One Creation; shared ancestry; God intervenes.
I was thinking you subscribed to the former. (?)
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: zvezda on May 01, 2015, 09:36:49 AM ---
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on April 30, 2015, 10:27:15 AM ---
--- Quote from: zvezda on April 30, 2015, 07:59:22 AM ---
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on April 29, 2015, 08:26:53 PM ---All the scriptures harmonize perfectly when you come to realize that adam wasn't the first man on the earth, just the first man to till the earth and dress it (farmer).
--- End quote ---
I am not so sure about Adam being the first farmer, humans started farming about 12,000 years ago (10,000 BC). It seems that there were farmers long before Adam, do some research on history of agriculture if you like.
--- End quote ---
Hi Zvezda,
I don't have a problem with the dating being off. Its not off very much. I understand the dating techniques used in science, I am a cellular biologist by study, and we humans aren't without error in our study of the past. Our techniques are subject to their own limitations as well as human error. A perfect example of this is the current Egyptian chronology and the fierce debate that is currently going on to revise it. When you look this far back into the past, with nothing but fragments of it remaining, the image you get is quiet murky and unclear. Mistakes are made. What I do trust without a doubt is God and His timeline.
God bless,
Alex
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Joel on April 30, 2015, 08:10:29 PM ---I agree Alex that dating issues are a problem that as of now are mostly unresolved.
--- End quote ---
It reminds me of those christains who are still in babylon, when I talked to them about the fossil evidence that Adam was not the first human, they said the similar reasons (dating methods are not reliable, humans aren't without error, etc) to reject all the researches and deny there were people before Adam.
There's no verse that says Adam was the first farmer, is there? Genesis 2:5 only says there was not a man to till the ground, it doesn't say Adam was the first man to till the ground. I don't think it contradicts God's words even if there were farmers long before Adam. The bible doesn't tell us a lot about what happened before Adam. All I said in my previous post was that if you like you can do some research, then you can decide if you still think Adam was the first farmer.
--- End quote ---
Hi Zevda,
I'm currently on my phone. Just moved into my new apartment in virginia and I am without internet or computer so please forgive me for the spelling errors or brevity of post.
You say that adam wasn't the first farmer only that there was "no man to till the soil." Your argument does not follow the logic though. The word man is the generic word for humanity. If there is no humanity during the time adam was formed who coild "till the soil" and God creates him to do just that as well as "dress and keep" the garden then it follows by reason that Adam was that first human who could. You mean to tell methat there is in fact plebty of tilling the soil before adan was forned going on and that God just didn't notice it? Maybe he lied? So yes, by If A then B elementary logics, Adam was the first man to tilll the soil, dress and keep the garden--the first farmer. God has introduced agriculture to the planet and if you know scripture, you know how fond God is of agricultural analogies and parables.
God bless,
Alex
zvezda:
Hi Alex, Genesis 2:5 says there was not a man to till the ground, and then v15 God put Adam into the garden to dress it and to keep it. First of all, we don't know what happened outside the garden during the time between "no man to till the ground" and "God put Adam into the garden." Not that God didn't notice what's going on outside the garden during that time, just that He doesn't tell us much about it in the bible. Secondly, God put Adam into the garden to dress it and to keep it. What kind of job it is to "dress it and to keep it"? There were already food for Adam to eat, and he definitely didn't need to water the garden.
2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food.....
2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
To me, "dress it and keep it" is not the same as "till the ground". It's after God kicked Adam out of the garden that he actually "till the ground". Adam didn't really "till the ground" inside the garden.
3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Like I said, we don't know what happened outside the garden before God made Adam, but the scientists discovered there were already humans who did farm work (again, not that God didn't notice it or He lied, I never said that, He just doesn't tell us much what happened outside the garden). Hunter-gatherers need to constantly be on the move to look for food, when they started to settle down, it indicates they had another way to get food, how else could they get food if it's not farming? They didn't become farmers overnight, there was a transition period. We trust the fossil evidence discovered by scientists to prove that Adam was not the first human, we can't just turn around and said the other evidence they discovered to prove farmers before Adam is wrong simply because the dating methods are not reliable. I understand scientists are not always right, that's why you need to read not just one but plenty of researches from different experts.
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