> General Discussions
Should we be asking for forgiveness.
Dave in Tenn:
I don't think that Ray taught that the greater 'world' is the 'many' who are called.
John's gospel seems to me to 'divide' the human race into those who did not know him (the world at large), those who did not receive Him (the many) and those who received Him and believed on His name (the few). All of the parables concerning the Kingdom, and the Revelation of Jesus Christ all point to this distinction in one way or the other. The parable of the fishermen who cast their nets don't drag up every fish in the sea, but draw up the 'many' from which are chosen the 'few'.
I can only speak from my own experience here, but I don't recall (maybe it was, maybe not--I was just too young and too much has happened since to cloud the issue) a 'fear of hell' being the defining reason for me doing what I knew how to do to 'profess my faith in Christ' and become a christian. My 'memory' is clearer on simply wanting to follow Him and be like Him, in whatever ways I understood at the time. It was after that that the corruption of carnal religion crept into my heart and mind and 'ruined' me. A lot of people seem to begin 'right', but loose their way...and that is clearly addressed by Jesus when we finally have eyes to see it. Religion rots and keeps us from 'growing' in grace and truth, and keeps us from worshiping in Spirit and Truth (assuming we ever did in the first place) until we just don't know what we're doing or why.
Jesus rebuked the religious leaders for traversing the world to make one disciple when afterwards the disciple is turned into two-fold the child of the devil. I believe it is just as imperative for the Muslims to "come out of" the mosque and the Jews to "come out of" the Jewish synagogue as it is for Christians to "come out of" 'our' Babylon. "Christianity" is not the Kingdom--the reign of Christ is. There is no other name given by which man can be saved. NOBODY comes to the Father but by Him.
So I'm glad for those 'coming to Christ' in all honesty and sincerity, but I know that this is only a beginning if it merely means a change in religion. Anyway, EVERYONE will eventually be the ONE LOST SHEEP that the Shepherd goes after, leaving the ninety-and-nine...each in his own turn.
rick:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on August 04, 2015, 09:14:50 PM ---
I don't think that Ray taught that the greater 'world' is the 'many' who are called.
--- End quote ---
Hello Dave,
I hope I say this right but then again, I don’t always say it right, in fact, you could say I get it right few times rather than many times. Hope that makes some sense. Lol
I don’t believe that the ( as you mention ) ( the greater world ) is apart of the called period. I don’t believe God is working with them at all, however even the ( greater world ) does not have free will so one cannot say God is doing nothing with them as we know all are being directed by God period.
Now , My understanding is there is only the ( many ) period who God calls, just one group, like there is one Father ,one Lord, one baptism. All of the many find themselves in Christendom learning false doctrine, being move further and further from the truth. Yes, Christendom”s false doctrine leads us to believe blasphemous things about our very loving God and also instills fear of eternal punishment that will never end.
I believe from the ( many ) God calls the ( few ) out of Christendom who were chosen before the world was framed. The ( few) who are called cannot take credit for being called, they have not become the few because of something in themselves that entice God to their favor, No man ( CAN BOAST )
This is how I understand these things to be, if one can consider two groups it would seemed to me that the many are one group who is called by God and the ( greater world ) would be the other group who is not being called by God in this age but indeed shall be called in the next age because it is God’s will that all be save and like the scriptures say, Gods will be done an we know Jesus is very good at what He does and Jesus saves period. Jesus savior of the whole world especially those who believe.
God bless. :)
Kat:
--- Quote from: Rick on August 04, 2015, 06:56:59 PM ---I’m not sure if Ray has covered that which is on my mind but my thoughts are as scripture states many are called but few are chosen, God is to me obvious calling both groups but I don’t really view it as two groups but only one group which out of the one group God has only chosen what scripture refers to as the few.
I see those who are of the many do have a zeal for God and my thoughts are about God actually dealing with the many but not actually choosing them and all others just don’t believe in a God at all which the many would be placed amongst these who are perishing and will be resurrected into the white throne judgement.
--- End quote ---
Hi Rick, in speaking of the many called and the few chosen, there is a process which all God's chosen must go through... first we are called into the church, this is our first love, being introduced to God. But as Dave pointed out the carnal church corrupts and we will lose/forsake God while there.
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on August 04, 2015, 09:14:50 PM ---what I knew how to do to 'profess my faith in Christ' and become a christian. My 'memory' is clearer on simply wanting to follow Him and be like Him, in whatever ways I understood at the time. It was after that that the corruption of carnal religion crept into my heart and mind and 'ruined' me. A lot of people seem to begin 'right', but loose their way...and that is clearly addressed by Jesus when we finally have eyes to see it. Religion rots and keeps us from 'growing' in grace and truth, and keeps us from worshiping in Spirit and Truth (assuming we ever did in the first place) until we just don't know what we're doing or why.
--- End quote ---
What Dave says there fits right along with leaving your first love and building your house on sand (Matt 7), that all happens in the false church "Mystery Babylon." If you are chosen then that all must come crashing down and God draws you out from among the many called. Then He opens our eyes and you begin to see/understand His truths.
Here is where Ray spoke about this in the LOF 13. 'WHO IS THE BEAST?'
http://bible-truths.com/lake13.html -------------------------
The Seven [COMPLETE] Churches of God represent the WHOLE CHURCH OF GOD in all generations. And so, what is it that God says those who are ALREADY IN THE CHURCH have to do if they are to overcome and be in the Kingdom of God? Answer:
"Remember therefore from whence you are FALLEN, and REPENT…" (Rev. 2:5).
Repent of WHAT? Repent of "…leaving your FIRST LOVE."
But you say, "I have never left my first love." Well then, this Scripture isn’t speaking to you. But everyone who does make it into the Kingdom, does leave his first love. There are those, however, who have left their first love, AND DON’T EVEN KNOW IT! Repenting will come especially hard for them, as they see nothing to repent of.
Whenever someone is called of God and he repents, is baptized, confirmed, initiated, or whatever, it is into a church. And sooner or later that particular church will bring you to the point where you will leave your first love for God and turn to the church and its religion as the idol of your heart. God calls His people OUT of the Babylonish System of Religion which has a strangle hold on ‘The Church.’
v
Yes, the believers in Ephesus were called saints. But were they perfect? Were they spiritually mature? Were they the VERY elect? No, they weren’t.
"Unto the angel of the church of EPHESUS write… I have somewhat [‘somewhat’ is not in the Greek texts] …I have against you, because you have LEFT YOUR FIRST LOVE" (Rev. 2:1 & 4).
Is Jesus accusing the whole church at Ephesus of leaving their first love, if in reality, there were only a few? But there were NOT just a few—the WHOLE CHURCH of Ephesus "left their first love." And furthermore, since the Seven Churches are ONE CHURCH, THE WHOLE CHURCH left their first love! Believe it or not, leaving one’s first love, is part of the process of "going on to perfection" (Heb. 6:1).
v
And now for one of the most amazing Truths in all Revelation:
"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her [Mystery Babylon the Great], MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4).
GOD CALLS HIS PEOPLE OUT OF THE VERY CHURCH THAT HE CALLED THEM INTO!
"Many are called but few are chosen" (Matt. 22:14).
Few realize that there is a "church WITHIN the church." When God chooses us FROM AMONG the called, we become separate from their doctrines and sins. We are still "The Church of the Living God," but we are a peculiar people that no longer follows the traditions of men, which the many called who are building the house upon the sand continue to follow.
v
Yes, there is HOPE for all those who build their house upon the sand? But there is hope only according to God’s choosing. Remember, "many are called, but FEW ARE CHOSEN."
Every one who is chosen out from the called, will have first built their spiritual house upon the sand, and it will FALL! Every one who is of the chosen FEW will leave his "First Love" (Rev. 2:4). There is a time when all of the chosen will "look back," and see a time when they were not, "…FIT for the Kingdom of God" (Luke 9:62). It happened to Peter, it happened to the other eleven apostles, it happened to Paul, it happened to Paul’s followers, it happened to the entire early church, it will happen to US!
v
I showed numerous times that all: leave their first love, forsake Jesus, look back, blaspheme, build a spiritual house upon the sand, etc.
It is when John is standing on the sand of the sea that he first sees the wild beast come up out of the sea. Now the questions become: "WHEN did John stand upon the sand in HIS life? WHEN do we stand upon the sand in OUR lives?
Answer: When the spiritual house that we all build falls down with a ‘GREAT FALL.’ When (notice I did not say, ‘IF’)…when our spiritual house built upon the spiritual sand falls, WE ARE LEFT STANDING ON THE SAND OF THE SEA. We are only INCHES above the very sea itself—the masses and multitudes of humanity who do not have any knowledge of God AT ALL. It doesn’t mean that we have no knowledge of God at all at this quandary in our spiritual lives; it just means that we are no closer to God than all the humanity in the sea. Hence, we are not IN the sea, but rather standing on the SAND of the sea where out spiritual house just FELL!
And since God is not only calling some of us but choosing us also, God begins to teach us anew. And the first thing He begins to show us is the WILD BEAST coming up out of the sea that is the CAUSE of our being overcome and the CAUSE of our spiritual house falling! This wild beast will be reckoned with by all humanity sooner or later.
v
And so after we repent of leaving our first love, and all the sin and corruption that goes along with it, what are we to do? Why we begin building our spiritual house upon The ROCK of Jesus Christ—the FOUNDATION of Jesus Christ, of course.
THE HOUSE UPON THE ROCK
"Therefore whosoever hears these sayings of mine, and does them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon THE rock; And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and it fell NOT; for it was founded [foundationed] upon THE ROCK" (Matt. 7:24-25).
Oh yes, the rains and floods and winds of trials and persecution will surely come, but we have this absolute assurance of God:
"Now unto Him that is able to KEEP YOU FROM FALLING, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour through Jesus Christ our Lord, be GLORY and MAJESTY, DOMINION and POWER, both now and ever. Amen" (Jude 24).
I love this verse. Read it over a half dozen times. It is sheer spiritual poetry! This is one of those absolutely POWER-PACKED Scriptures that should make our hair stand up! It is in verses like this that the King James Version really shines.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
Terry:
Hello Rick just wanted to let you know that you are not by yourself i'm also walking in those same shoes, while i study here often i can't bring my self to post anymore as i feel i'm the last person to give advice to anyone.
God lead me here i think 2007 and i've read everything on this site seems it took months and then one day i saw the Spirit in Gods word i was so so happy but for me so far thats about as far as i've got, to busy sinning or thinking about sinning i guess, believe me i know the true meaning of Torture 24/7 but as hard as it seems, nothing i feel can make me look back from where i came,all i guess i really know is i once was blind but now i see and for now that keeps me going.
So thanks to all you guys who do post i can't tell you how much it helps.I know we haven't met but i truely love you guys.
Terry
rick:
--- Quote from: Terry on August 14, 2015, 11:50:51 AM ---Hello Rick just wanted to let you know that you are not by yourself i'm also walking in those same shoes, while i study here often i can't bring my self to post anymore as i feel i'm the last person to give advice to anyone.
God lead me here i think 2007 and i've read everything on this site seems it took months and then one day i saw the Spirit in Gods word i was so so happy but for me so far thats about as far as i've got, to busy sinning or thinking about sinning i guess, believe me i know the true meaning of Torture 24/7 but as hard as it seems, nothing i feel can make me look back from where i came,all i guess i really know is i once was blind but now i see and for now that keeps me going.
So thanks to all you guys who do post i can't tell you how much it helps.I know we haven't met but i truely love you guys.
Terry
--- End quote ---
Hi Terry,
Its people like us Terry that Christ die for, its us nobodies that the kingdom of God is being prepared for .
If you ask me Terry, the difference with me is I know I deserve death, I’m a sinner through and through.
I know better than to raise my eyes towards heaven, be happy, you know the same things I do.
There is nothing special about me that anyone should want to know.
Its better for a man to know what he is an admit it than to know what he is an deny it, for that kind of man only deceives himself.
Its only when we see we are nothing more than a piece of clay in the hands of the potter does Gods peace works in our life and for one to understand we are only a piece of clay is to understand free will is only a hoax.
Your words tell me your doing just fine in that you deceive yourself not. I know I’m not alone Terry for there are many just like me who Christ will bring into perfection in His time.
God has blessed you be happy.
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