> General Discussions
Should we be asking for forgiveness.
Mike Gagne:
Hi Kat, I would just like to add to this....
--- Quote from: Kat on August 04, 2015, 11:02:22 AM ---
--- Quote from: Rick on August 03, 2015, 05:48:02 PM ---I have taken the privilege of copying this from Rays papers.
Every vessel of humanity is first made “marred in the hand of the Potter.” ... “the carnal mind is enmity against God,” ... “for out of the heart proceed evil thoughts.” Every vessel must be refashioned--regenerated, converted, judged, purged, and born again of the Spirit.
Im not sure but Im thinking can something that is marred knows its marred unless God shows that which is marred that it is marred and if God is showing something that it is marred them it would stand to reason that God is working in that persons life that is marred.
Does that make sense ? :-\
--- End quote ---
Yes I think you are right, all start out "marred," carnal and in darkness.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
You should read how the church and commentaries twist that Scripture ("the vessel that He made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter") to make it fit what 'they' believe. They think God would/could not make us in such a 'damaged' conditions from the start, oh no it's our supposed free will that brings us to that. Their manipulation of that Scripture reminds me of a famous quote, "Oh, what a tangled web we weave... when first we practice to deceive."
The world is totally deceived and of course a deceived person really believes the lies they're fed, that's the nature of deception and so what they preach is deception as well. It truly is the blind leading the blind.
Matt 15:14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch."
But what they cannot comprehend or phantom is that it is God who has "marred" us from the beginning. The veil of deception so obscures the truth and blinds the world that they are completely lose in darkness.
2Cor 3:14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
v. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
v. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
Only when one "turns to the Lord" and we know that can only be done when the Father draws you to Him (John 6:44), and there are very few being drawn and having their minds open to the truth now... and yes shown that they are "marred."
1Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
The world is still waiting in darkness, BUT there is hope.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the revealing of the sons of God.
v. 20 For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of Him who subjected it, in hope
v. 21 that the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
It seems in showing us that we are marred is a process
Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
As His work continues in me I am ever careful to remember to take heed, because I don't know what part of the beast is about to be revealed to me!
Lots of great post here, thank you everyone.
lareli:
If you do not forgive others God will not forgive you.
3 Witnesses
Matt 6:15, Matt 18:35, Mark 11:26
rick:
--- Quote from: largeli on September 12, 2015, 03:50:05 PM ---If you do not forgive others God will not forgive you.
3 Witnesses
Matt 6:15, Matt 18:35, Mark 11:26
--- End quote ---
Hi Largeli,
I’m reviewing Ray’s free will series again, I know Ray said one will not stop doing what they do until God says they will stop.
I’m wondering if somehow I misconstrue what Ray had taught on the subject of free will, all have a will, everyone’s will is subjected to Gods will. What I’m trying to understand now is the fact that I do have a will and is my will subjected to Gods will 24/7 / 365.
My thinking is along these lines, not if but when I sin can I say God made me sin ? God forbid I should believe such a thing, it was my choice to make. Now, Ray said if a man rapes a women, one cannot say it was God who ordained that sin to happen so in other words God does not ordain sin.
Well what else does a person do in the course of their life that God does not ordain? Ray teaches that no one has ever made an uncaused choice so we can conclude that every choice one makes has a cause behind it which is true but its possible to say everything I do is of God in that He is the creator but we know not everything is by God.........God does not ordain sin nor has God given anyone permission to sin.
A key thing to me that Ray mentioned was he ate some girl scot cookies that had nothing to do with God, in other words God doesn’t say what one will eat or perhaps even wear.
We are not mindless robots God created , we take in information we process that information and we make a choice. We make choices according to our circumstances but here Ray eluded circumstances concerning him eating girl scot cookies, did God know he would eat girl scot cookies at that specific time and date perhaps but I don’t know for sure one way or the other.
You gave three scriptures saying if we do not forgive then God will not forgives us our sin/s which according to scripture is true, now here comes the big BUT, is Ray right in saying one will not stop sinning until God says they will ? Not being forgiving is a sin is it not ?
So if someone offends me, is it up to God if I forgive that person or can I, not being a mindless robot choice to forgive that person whether God wills me to forgive that person or not ?
Is it possible to say God did when God did not ? Anyways I’ll be chilling in the free will section for the time being.
This topic was not about forgiving someone but should we ask forgiveness for ourselves knowing Christ already paid for the sins of the world especially those who believe.
God bless. :)
Dave in Tenn:
Rick:
Firstly, "forgiveness" is not the equivalent of "salvation". Salvation is FROM something. Salvation is a process. God's forgiveness is the first 'step' of that process in salvation from sin. The next two are 'repentance' and 'cleansing'. None of those words are theological terms. They are sound language. Since "salvation" is a process, it begins and ends and has a middle. Every step of that process has a beginning an end and a middle. Some are being "saved" now. All will be saved one day. But nobody who hasn't undergone the "process" will ever be "saved" until they have. It's axiomatic. That's what "salvation" IS.
Just listened to this today. Listen and get far more than I can communicate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5YCfZQ7XfU
Secondly, why wouldn't you ask for forgiveness? Are you afraid of breaking some theological rule? If you know your sins are forgiven, give thanks. If you believe that until you forgive, you won't be forgiven...then at least you know where to start. "FORGIVE US OUR TRESPASSES..." The Lord Jesus taught us to pray that.
Thirdly, a question for you. You say God is sovereign over your will. If God did not exist, would your will then be free to choose good over evil? What about evil over good? What about what flavor of Girl Scout cookies to buy?
judy:
Rick, I'm a little late here but I was dealing with a sin that just was eating my guts out. I discovered something, oh, and by the way, i always agree with God about my sinning. How can i not when the darn thing tortures me. I quit saying, "forgive me" because I would do it again and that's when the spiral downward started. I was FOCUSING on the sin and NOT on God. Good trick of the evil one to get your eyes off God. So, I took my eyes off the sin, believed I was forgiven because He is the Author and Finisher of our faith and our life and He was in charge. Once I delved back whole heartedly into the Lord, the sin ceased to have control. Does it still tempt, yes, but it doesn't have me in it's claws anymore. I now have a choice where before I was a slave to it. It's hard to explain when something as dramatic as this happens and put it into words.
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