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Are our thoughts really our thoughts ?

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Colin:
Hello everyone

In Ray’s last article which he left for us, I “rediscovered” where he encouraged us to think and meditate.   As Kat brought out, God gave us intellect to think, reason and make decisions.   

quote: That all comes from how God designed and made us to have consciousness, so that we are aware of the world around us and can interact with it.

From Ray's article Why God Loves You …… 
 
Yes, you were "fore-known" before you were ever born
God's family, God's plan, God's universe would not be complete without YOU! No one can take your place. There is one of you and there will always only be one of you. You need to think about this and meditate on it. Too many people feel that their life is of little if any value. That's not true, you are so incredibly important to God that Jesus Christ voluntarily laid down His life on the cross, not because your sins had some power over God's life; not to pay some divine debt that you owed God, not to appease the wrath of God, not because He had to die for you, but because GOD LOVES YOU, and He would do anything to prove His eternal love and devotion for HIS FAMILY AND CHILDREN, of whom you are totally unique.      End of quote.

Ray was telling us that we can consciously concentrate our thoughts towards certain themes/topics. 

 This is also indicated in Proverbs 4. 

Prov  4:20  My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.       21  Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.     22  For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.     23  Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.     24  Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee.    25  Let thine eyes look right on, and let thine eyelids look straight before thee.    26  Ponder the path of thy feet, and let all thy ways be established.   27  Turn not to the right hand nor to the left: remove thy foot from evil.

Another piece of encouragement, dealing with how our thoughts should be centred and which Ray often quoted is

Philip 4:8  Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on [Greek  logizomai = take an inventory of] these things.       Colin

Pini56:
Hello,

We make Hundreds of choices everyday. We might have many choices as to what to do in a particular situation, to go this way or that way, as Ray says: " the Choice you make is the only Choice you could have made".

Regards, Geoff.

rick:

--- Quote from: Kat on January 26, 2016, 04:34:42 PM ---
One thing I don't think is being taken into account, is that God gave us a brain... what I'm saying is that with our brain we use our senses to evaluate the world around us and process that information. That is what is so incredible about human beings, is that God gave us intellect to think, reason and make decisions. That all comes from how God designed and made us to have consciousness, that we are aware of the world around us and can interact with it.

But the brain is a carnal thing, you know we've had threads about ego, and the brain is all about self. Even seemingly good acts on our part are selfish. Ray spoke about how love is selfish in his marriage article, because we expect to be reciprocated for loving somebody. I think most things we do is with self preservation in mind... I suppose the least selfish reason to do something good would be because it makes us feel good, but even that comes about from our feelings.

So all the things we experience by sight, hearing, touch, taste and smell are things our brain takes in and then guides us to react to... that causes us to then think, reason and make a decision about it. But how does God fit in? Well I'll give an analogy, these comparisons seem to help sometimes. When a watchmaker makes all the intricate parts and carefully puts them together for a time piece, it's from a carefully calculated design. He knows what he is creating and how each part functions, all of it's components are made just for it's particular purpose and so when they are precisely aligned they will work together in a certain way to bring about the desired results. So is God's foreknowledge of this creation.

Pro 16:9  A man's heart plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.

Think about this, God has design each of us to be exactly as we are and everything that happens is exactly as He intended and knew it would happen, He knows the end from the beginning. He does not need to whisper a thought in anybody's ear to do something good, He already created the components/us that react with exacting precision from the causes He knew would be in play around us. In His foreknowledge He has already seen everything preform exactly as He knew it would and now He is overseeing how every single event does actually play out.

Isa 46:10  Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,'
v. 11  Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.

Psa 33:11  The counsel of the LORD stands forever, The plans of His heart to all generations.

I'm not saying God never gets involved with His creation, there are plenty of cases in Scripture where He does, but that was His intention. He has made Himself known to us in various ways (Heb 1:1). For now human being are having a carnal existence to gain this experience of good and evil - life, and yes good can and does come from carnal people, it's just a selfish good. It is not until the Holy Spirit comes indwelling that we then begin to have a spiritual experience as well and God's righteousness is developed in us... the called/church only think they are spiritual, you don't know what spiritual is until you actually experience it.

Satan is thrown into the mix to serve as God's adversary, Satan and the demonic realm bring a whole other element of evil to this creation. They are unseen (maybe visible in hallucinations that they cause in the mind) and dreadful to those that encounter them. When you think about a lot of the unexplained seemingly supernatural events, I think most all can be attributed to the demonic realm.

So this is the sovereignty of God, it's impossible to fully realize all His capabilities, His power is truly unfathomable, but we can see it in what He is doing in this incredible creation.

Rom 1:20  For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.

It's a good thing that we can accept that all this creation is just as He meant it to be. And to think this knowledge has been hidden from the whole world, no matter how much they search and think on it and try to reason it out they cannot, only a privileged few are seeing these things.

1Cor 2:7  But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,

Eph 1:11  In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

Eph 1:9  having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,

Col 2:2  that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ,
v. 3  in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

--- End quote ---

Hi Kat,

You bring out some great point, ones I understand and also think about, I know it's impossible to pin point how God works in us.

when I think about the choices I make I realize they really are my choices but these choices I make are made through causes God place before me and yes the choices I make will turn out either the way God wanted them to turn out or the way God knew how they would turn out.

So, if God wants me to do B He sets up circumstance A that He knows will cause me to choose B.

so, God did not force me to choose B, that was really my choice to make, or God set up A which force me to choose B, the only choice possible.

My thoughts are caused thoughts too, so what Im understanding here is the only thoughts I can have or will have are the only possible thoughts I can have according to the thought s God wants me to have.

God is sovereght and there are six billion people on earth today, so, six billion people can not think what they want and choose what they want contrary to what God wants.

Could it be that our intellect is only a tool that our soul uses to express its self through the five senses or through divine intervention or divine interjection.


God bless.

lilitalienboi16:
Since God is operating all things after the LAW of His own will, I felt this from Ray's first free will article may help here as well.

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the law of his own will...

http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html

THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH

I stated earlier that it is through LAW that God controls all things in the universe. Only the ego of the carnal mind is so great that it actually believes it is the exception to the universal rule, and is not subject to law, but is free from law. I tell you assuredly, it is not exempt from law.

We saw that with Adam and Eve, as well as with Peter and all the disciples, that there was always a cause that made men will as they did. But why is it that the natural carnal mind always wills against God? Why does it always will to sin and do evil? And why does the spirit mind of converted man always desire to obey God and do what is good? Could there be a "law" at work here? Yes, indeed there is. The carnal-minded man is governed by one law, whereas the converted man is governed by a different law, but all are governed by law.

    "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death" (Rom. 8:1-2).

Notice that one law frees us from another law, but we still remain under some law. All unconverted carnal-minded humanity is under "the LAW of sin and death." That law controls the unregenerate man. And he cannot, of his own will, break the controls of that law. That law will control him until he dies or unless God intervenes with a different offsetting law, namely, "the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus."

I think LAW has a huge role in how we think and how we act. It provides God the foreknowledge to declare the end from the beginning and to call those things that are not as though they were. He knows exactly how everyone of us will act under the conditions that He already knows will come about because of His planning.

Like Kat said, God also plans in advance where He will intervene so that He still does intervene! Yet that doesn't mean our thoughts are not our own or don't originate from ourselves, it just means that they were not free to be any other way.

I really don't see us being empty basket heads were God and Satan take turn throwing thoughts in just because our thoughts aren't free to originate from within without reason/cause.

God bless,
Alex

rick:
Hi Alex,

Everything is govern by law, the law of cause and effect , the law of sin and death and the law of life in the spirit.

Its incredible to me how God is sovereght and who knows the ends from the beginning and that our thoughts and choices are caused and at the same time our thoughts are solely of ourselves.

Its totally mind boggling to me , it in itself shows the wisdom of a great creator. I feel totally free in both my thoughts and choices but understand both are indeed caused.

Perhaps a good analogy is the law of cause and effect, if I put my hand in fire I will
get burnt , God did not tell me to put my hand in the fire and my memory will prevent me from doing so in the future.

So Im a free thinker within the parameters of Gods laws which governs what we think do and say.

There are exceptions to Gods laws through direct divine intervention where applicable according to the purpose and will of God.

We are not responsible for our thoughts or choices because of how God created us and the laws that governs our lives but we are accoutable because our thoughts and choices are really ours to think and choose according to Gods laws.

Its all very fasinating , especially when I say to myself , why did I just do that but of course its because of the laws of God.

God bless all.

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