> General Discussions
Obey Those in Authority
rick:
Hi George,
I hear what your saying but did not Paul write under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit ? Sure, it's frustrating , it's more like do as I say not as I do , it's the way of the world, the world God is in control of.
We are here to learn righteousness and to be humbled through and experience of good and evil so without these wicked rulers how would we learn?
It's hard to see all the suffering that all human beings go through including our leaders too. Remember pray for them do not curse.
cheekie3:
Rick -
--- Quote from: Rick on June 10, 2016, 12:40:21 PM ---Hi ,George
I understand your meaning but why complicate things ? We are commanded to obey those in authority until the laws they put out go to contrary to Gods law.
I agree all is corrupt and perverted but we cannot use their corruption as an excuse to disobey God.
It's Gods creation not ours, God knows what He is doing and if God tells up to obey these corrupt leaders they we obey them. I know it's not what you want to hear nor what I want to say but it's all of God and besides these corrupt leaders will also be brought into the family of God.
If you look at things from a carnal minded perspective the solution will be a carnal minded solution and not of the spirit of God solution .
How much harder will it be for them in the lake of fire ? God does say vengeance is mine meaning Gods not ours.
God bless.
--- End quote ---
Thank you for your post.
I am currently looking at the whole 'in the world, but not of the world' issue to ensure I understand it fully and correctly.
Kind Regards.
George.
cheekie3:
largeli -
--- Quote from: largeli on June 10, 2016, 01:36:37 PM ---Paul said in Romans that rulers are not a terror to good works but to evil.... Sounds like our modern day version of "if you're not doing anything wrong then you've got nothing to worry about"... Kind of ironic coming from Paul who a short time earlier was going house to house under the authority of the law and assaulting peaceful people, kids and women and throwing them in jail.... Not to mention Jesus Christ had just recently been beaten by those who rule and publicly executed by them.. All done by these rulers who are supposedly not a terror to good works.
I don't doubt that we are to submit to rulers even if we are being unfairly treated or persecuted... In deed it is to our benefit when we bare unjust persecution as if we are submitting to God Himself. My only point of poor understanding is why or how Paul of all people could write that rulers are not a terror to good but to evil. I just don't see that being true.
--- End quote ---
Thank you for your post.
I know that injustice is all around us; and I know about experiencing the knowledge of both good and evil. I know we must pray for those in authority - and forgive all.
Paul was best placed to understand both The Way and The World's Way (even though Paul served The World's Way in ignorance thinking he was doing The Lord's work) - as he fully experienced both - and knew The Truth of things.
My only point of poor understanding is why or how Paul of all people could write that rulers are not a terror to good but to evil. I just don't see that being true.
This is the point I am currently researching The Holy Scriptures for - as, to me, there is a big difference from suffering from being fired for your beliefs in The Lord (which obviously will always be opposed to the World's beliefs - as Satan rules over this world and its many spiritual and physical interlocking systems), and how can I submit to an authority (opposed to The Way, The Truth and The Life) to rule over me, when Christ only should be my Master.
Kind Regards.
George.
cheekie3:
Rick -
--- Quote from: Rick on June 10, 2016, 03:01:09 PM ---Hi George,
I hear what your saying but did not Paul write under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit ? Sure, it's frustrating , it's more like do as I say not as I do , it's the way of the world, the world God is in control of.
We are here to learn righteousness and to be humbled through and experience of good and evil so without these wicked rulers how would we learn?
It's hard to see all the suffering that all human beings go through including our leaders too. Remember pray for them do not curse.
--- End quote ---
Thank you for your post.
Again, I wholeheartedly agree with your Scriptural points.
The point I am currently researching The Scriptures on is:
How can I submit to an authority (opposed to The Way, The Truth and The Life) to rule over me, when Christ only should be my Master.
Kind Regards.
George.
arion:
We are to obey legitimate authority over us not illegitimate authority and that is the crux. Question. Where in the scripture does it command us to obey illegitimate or illegal authority? For example a wife is to submit herself to the authority of her husband. She is under no compulsion to submit herself to the authority of another woman's husband. Or, Satan will attempt to exert illegitimate authority over the believer and we know we are not to submit to him. There is much illegitimate authority posing as true authority.
Another example. In the U.S. our system is not set up to be a theocracy, a monarchy, police state, dictatorship or even a democracy. We are set up to be a constitutional republic....not a straight democracy. So what is considered legitimate authority in our system? Under our system our rulers receive limited powers received upon oath to fealty to the U.S. constitution. Any ruler who issues edicts that go against that constitution are [the edicts or laws] automatically null and void under our system. Of course who among the leaders of our nation obeys and keeps their oath to that constitution? Few. Very few. They pretty much all do whatever they want to do. Many might say that the way the U.S. was founded was wrong because the settlers rebelled against King George. But, King George was the King of England. Did his legitimate authority [under God] really extend across the ocean to the new world? He surely thought that it did.
Now to be sure if you take a stand and protest illegitimate authority and stand for what is right that will not protect you or I from the penalties that the 'authorities' are going to extract from you be it civil or criminal. For myself with the time I spent as a officer in the U.S. Army in my former life I learned a lot about the constitution and contrasting legitimate vs illegitimate authority. A officer can go against illegal and unconstitutional orders and do what is right but will probably pay a penalty for bucking his orders. The Nazi's during WWII used the excuse that they were following orders and obeying the laws of their land and thereby attempted to absolve themselves from their crimes. It didn't work for them in the end.
So to wrap it all up obeying civil authority isn't as cut and dry as one might think it to be. On one hand we are not to be a law unto ourselves with everyone 'doing what is right in his own eyes' but on the other hand we are not under compunction to obey the various diktats of any officials or luminaries that decide to discard their limited powers under our constitution and take to themselves authority that they don't legitimately possess. Not as cut and dried as it may appear at first glance. Know what is right and do what is right but know that in doing so you may indeed pay a penalty as true and legitimate authority in this country [knowing that we have members here from many countries and systems of law] is getting as rare as hens teeth.
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