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1 John 5: 4 .
cheekie3:
Alex -
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on July 31, 2016, 11:04:00 PM ---Dear Goerge,
Im a simple minded person so lets go one question at a time for my sake.
I believe Kat provided a sufficient responce in what Ray has said which I believe I did faithfuly present to Rick originally.
God bless,
Alex
P.S. You said "You say that in the Greek, Born and Begotten are the same; and you say Conceived is different." But I didn't say that though. I said there is only one word for Born and Concieved in greek which is 'Begotten.'
--- End quote ---
I am confused.
When did I address any of your Posted comments on this particular Topic?
I was responding to another post altogether.
I most certainly did not address you, or infer you said something that you did not state.
Kind Regards.
George
cheekie3:
Kat -
Thank you for these Scriptures:
--- Quote from: Kat on August 01, 2016, 01:22:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: cheekie3 on August 01, 2016, 05:23:27 AM ---
Are we not now (in Our New man) in full union with Our Heavenly Father and His Beloved Son, Jesus Christ? Who is the real man or woman that is us, is it the Old (Carnal) Man (or Woman), or is it the New (Spiritual) Man (or Woman)? Are we not to take 'here a little, there a little' of these Scriptural Truths, in order to Find The Truth of anything? Are we clear minded on the Things of God, that Please Him - are we not like 'flint' never wavering? Are we merely to be observers until the Resurrection of Our Bodies - are we not to be 'doers of The Word' - and if 'doers' what is it that we must do, if not 'all things in Christ Jesus as our New Man'?
--- End quote ---
That first comment that I put in bold is what I cannot agree to... now all the rest of it is what I believe is being worked in the chosen at this time, yes the process has started and cannot fail to be completed. But what I'm saying is we are not in 'full' unity with God while still in these carnal bodies. The resurrection is so much more than just the physical body changing to a spirit body, that is when I believe we join in 'full' unity with God. But now we are "heirs" and have the "guarantee of our inheritance."
James 2:5 Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him?
Luke 21:27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
v.28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."
This Scripture in Luke that says "your redemption draws near" as Christ is literally returning. Christ had said when they first see the "sign of the Son of Man appear in heaven" that is when He will call them up to meet Him in the air, the first resurrection, then is their full redemption.
Mat 24:30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
v. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mat 24:33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!
This passage in Ephesians puts the process the chosen go through in this life all together in a way that I think is clear.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
v. 4 even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love
v. 5 He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will,
v. 6 to the praise of His glorious grace, with which He has blessed us in the Beloved.
v. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace,
v. 8 which He lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight
v. 9 making known to us the mystery of His will, according to His purpose, which He set forth in Christ
v. 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth.
v. 11 In Him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
v. 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of His glory.
v. 13 In Him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
v. 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of His glory. (ESV)
2Cor 5:4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.
v. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
Rom 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
2Cor 5:6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
v. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.
v. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Regarding our New Man, I was merely pointing out what John The Baptist said, in that he must diminish (and continue to diminish), so Christ increases, and continues to increase.
Is this not a Parable of our Old Man (represented by John the Baptist's ministry) and Our New Man (In Christ)?
As our Old man diminishes, does not Our New Man increase?
Is not Our New Man in Christ (at all times)? I am not saying that we are yet complete in our maturity. I m stating that Our New Man is incorruptible (as He is always In Christ) - and to me, as Our New Man is in Christ - Our New Man must be in full union with Our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. Is this not so? Have I misunderstood that Our internal two Witnesses of His Truths (Our Heavenly Father and His Beloved Son, Jesus Christ) communed, and continue to commune, with His Elect via their Holy Spirit to Our New Man; as The Elect are in Christ (Now) and Christ is in The Elect (Now) and Christ is in His Father (Now) and The Father is in His Son (Now)?
Can Our New Man commune with The Throne of Almighty God, and only be less than in full Union with The Father and The Son?
Has not The Father freely Given His Elect (in their New Man) of His Holy Spirit - and was it not Jesus Himself who gave us freely of His Holy Spirit?
Can a child (The Elect) have full union with their Father (Our Heavenly Father) without being as mature and complete as their Father?
If I am way off base, please forgive me - but to me, it is absolutely clear that as minors, children or maybe a little more mature Members of His Elect, they must be in full union (oneness) with Almighty God Himself - according to His Word.
Kind Regards.
George
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: cheekie3 on August 02, 2016, 04:41:27 AM ---Alex -
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on July 31, 2016, 11:04:00 PM ---Dear Goerge,
Im a simple minded person so lets go one question at a time for my sake.
I believe Kat provided a sufficient responce in what Ray has said which I believe I did faithfuly present to Rick originally.
God bless,
Alex
P.S. You said "You say that in the Greek, Born and Begotten are the same; and you say Conceived is different." But I didn't say that though. I said there is only one word for Born and Concieved in greek which is 'Begotten.'
--- End quote ---
I am confused.
When did I address any of your Posted comments on this particular Topic?
I was responding to another post altogether.
I most certainly did not address you, or infer you said something that you did not state.
Kind Regards.
George
--- End quote ---
The post you quoted and adrressedd to IndianaBob was the post He quoted from me that I wrote. You were responding to my post without apparently realizing it. You did infer something I did not say. Please go back and re-read my post above on the first lage and then read what I dianabob wrote, he was merely quoting me and saying
'Thank you for your explanation Alex,
Very well put and helpful...
Much appreciated, Indianabob'
cheekie3:
Alex -
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on August 02, 2016, 10:38:44 AM ---
--- Quote from: cheekie3 on August 02, 2016, 04:41:27 AM ---Alex -
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on July 31, 2016, 11:04:00 PM ---Dear Goerge,
Im a simple minded person so lets go one question at a time for my sake.
I believe Kat provided a sufficient responce in what Ray has said which I believe I did faithfuly present to Rick originally.
God bless,
Alex
P.S. You said "You say that in the Greek, Born and Begotten are the same; and you say Conceived is different." But I didn't say that though. I said there is only one word for Born and Concieved in greek which is 'Begotten.'
--- End quote ---
I am confused.
When did I address any of your Posted comments on this particular Topic?
I was responding to another post altogether.
I most certainly did not address you, or infer you said something that you did not state.
Kind Regards.
George
--- End quote ---
The post you quoted and adrressedd to IndianaBob was the post He quoted from me that I wrote. You were responding to my post without apparently realizing it. You did infer something I did not say. Please go back and re-read my post above on the first lage and then read what I dianabob wrote, he was merely quoting me and saying
'Thank you for your explanation Alex,
Very well put and helpful...
Much appreciated, Indianabob'
--- End quote ---
Thank you for explaining:
I have now re read your Post that indianabob agreed to.
Are you stating that in the Greek language of the New Testament, the following is true:
1. That Conceived and Born are stated as 'Begotten' in the New Testament Greek Language - so we must determine when it means Conceived and Born.
2. That Jesus is the only one Born of God - and the Elect are all Conceived of God.
--- Quote ---You say that in the Greek, Born and Begotten are the same; and you say Conceived is different.
--- End quote ---
Are you saying that I have Conceived, Born and Begotten mixed up - and I stated that something that you did not state - as what you are actually stating is:
A. Begotten can mean Born.
B. Begotten can mean Conceived.
If so, thank you for the clarity.
Thank You.
Kind Regards.
George
Dave in Tenn:
--- Quote ---Regarding our New Man, I was merely pointing out what John The Baptist said, in that he must diminish (and continue to diminish), so Christ increases, and continues to increase.
Is this not a Parable of our Old Man (represented by John the Baptist's ministry) and Our New Man (In Christ)?
As our Old man diminishes, does not Our New Man increase?
--- End quote ---
I think you are embracing a theological concept that goes far beyond what scripture talks about as the "new man" or the "new humanity". It seems to me to be core to some people's teaching, but not something that Ray espoused to any great extent, if at all. If he did, I'd like to see it.
In short, it is no parable to say that I must decrease and He must increase. In every way that John 'decreased', Jesus increased...in the natural, in the message, in the ministry, in the effect of all of it.
I don't think of myself as "having" a new man. I think of myself as becoming a new man. And this I see as a quite "practical" (in that Spiritual IS practical) experience, that leaves me not as two men, but as one man with an internal war going on. I was too happy to get rid of the concept that *I* was a three-part 'person' to quickly put on the notion that now I am really TWO PEOPLE--one old and one new. As far as I'm concerned, I am ONE PERSON who sometimes thinks and does NEW, and sometimes thinks and does OLD. And THAT all by itself, is NEW. Before, the "option" to do and think NEW didn't even exist in me.
If you want to argue the point with me, feel free. I'm not a theologian. But at the very least provide scripture that doesn't depend on a theological interpretation to be understood. Otherwise, you'll lose me in the fog.
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