> General Discussions
New Testament Scriptural Definition of Sin
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: cheekie3 on August 21, 2016, 10:13:00 AM ---Alex -
Thank you.
This is indeed very helpful about His Laws and the condition of mankind trying to keep His Law with their own works (with ordinances, etc) - and I got the shock of my life, when I first read (and understood) that thinking about lusting is a 'sin':
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on August 20, 2016, 07:39:38 PM ---Well George, the way I understand it is, the law was and is spiritual, and it was the 10th commandment, 'don't covet', i.e. don't lust, i.e. DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT, that proved this to paull. after all, isn't that what Jesus said, don't even think about it? Dont lust after a woman in your heart, not just don't fornicate with her but don't even think about it!
So the old covenent is the ten commandments, which is part of the law of Moses, but the problem wasn't with the 10 commandments, it was with the heart of man, so the law came so that all might be found guilty, and then, a change was made, a new covenent which was to be written on the hearts of believers that to allow us to exceed in righteousness of the pharisees. That would make us able and spiritual, having life. How? Well the pharisees are trying to keep the law, which is spiritual, without Christ, with their filthy rags, which cannot be done for no man has power to not THINK (lust, covet) though he may outwardly appear to be righteouss and holy. But there is ONE WHO CAN keep Himself from coveting--JESUS. As the new covenent, He making His home in us, takes us beyond the just looking righteous to truly becoming holy by changing our hearts and minds. Yet if you try and keep that spiritual law of yourself, as all of israel after the flesh is trying, you will invariably fail because the 10th commandment will condemn you.
Jesus also showed us just how spiritual God's law is, i.e. love your enemies, don't hate them! Don't even THINK about hating your brother or you might as well have murdered him. But in Jesus our righteousness is fullfilled. He will complete us.
Hopefully this helps some. Its how I understand things. I also understand this is a difficult topic.
God bless,
Alex
--- End quote ---
I understand that His Laws were 'put' and 'written' in the hearts and minds of His People (The Elect):
Hebrews 8:10: KJV:
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Hebrews 10:16: KJV:
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Kind Regards.
George
--- End quote ---
Hi George,
Let me clarify one thing. Lusting in and of itself is not a sin. Jesus LUSTED to eat the last supper with His disciples but He never sinned. Its what you're lusting after, what's in your heart (for what proceeds from the heart defiles a man) that can be sinful. And so we see its the heart of man that needs a changing!
Glad my post wasn't too much mombo jumbo for people to understand ;)
God bless,
Alex
cheekie3:
Alex -
Thanks for this clarification regarding 'lust':
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on August 22, 2016, 05:11:26 PM ---
--- Quote from: cheekie3 on August 21, 2016, 10:13:00 AM ---Alex -
Thank you.
This is indeed very helpful about His Laws and the condition of mankind trying to keep His Law with their own works (with ordinances, etc) - and I got the shock of my life, when I first read (and understood) that thinking about lusting is a 'sin':
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on August 20, 2016, 07:39:38 PM ---Well George, the way I understand it is, the law was and is spiritual, and it was the 10th commandment, 'don't covet', i.e. don't lust, i.e. DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT, that proved this to paull. after all, isn't that what Jesus said, don't even think about it? Dont lust after a woman in your heart, not just don't fornicate with her but don't even think about it!
So the old covenent is the ten commandments, which is part of the law of Moses, but the problem wasn't with the 10 commandments, it was with the heart of man, so the law came so that all might be found guilty, and then, a change was made, a new covenent which was to be written on the hearts of believers that to allow us to exceed in righteousness of the pharisees. That would make us able and spiritual, having life. How? Well the pharisees are trying to keep the law, which is spiritual, without Christ, with their filthy rags, which cannot be done for no man has power to not THINK (lust, covet) though he may outwardly appear to be righteouss and holy. But there is ONE WHO CAN keep Himself from coveting--JESUS. As the new covenent, He making His home in us, takes us beyond the just looking righteous to truly becoming holy by changing our hearts and minds. Yet if you try and keep that spiritual law of yourself, as all of israel after the flesh is trying, you will invariably fail because the 10th commandment will condemn you.
Jesus also showed us just how spiritual God's law is, i.e. love your enemies, don't hate them! Don't even THINK about hating your brother or you might as well have murdered him. But in Jesus our righteousness is fullfilled. He will complete us.
Hopefully this helps some. Its how I understand things. I also understand this is a difficult topic.
God bless,
Alex
--- End quote ---
I understand that His Laws were 'put' and 'written' in the hearts and minds of His People (The Elect):
Hebrews 8:10: KJV:
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Hebrews 10:16: KJV:
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Kind Regards.
George
--- End quote ---
Hi George,
Let me clarify one thing. Lusting in and of itself is not a sin. Jesus LUSTED to eat the last supper with His disciples but He never sinned. Its what you're lusting after, what's in your heart (for what proceeds from the heart defiles a man) that can be sinful. And so we see its the heart of man that needs a changing!
Glad my post wasn't too much mombo jumbo for people to understand ;)
God bless,
Alex
--- End quote ---
I always thought that 'lust' was not a good thing at all.
I John 2:16: KJV:
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Is this the Scripture you are referring to:
Luke 22:15: KJV:
And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
Luke 22:15: NIV:
And he said to them, "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer.
Luke 22:15: Phillips Version
Then, when the time came, he took his seat at table with the apostles, and spoke to them, “With all my heart I have longed to eat this Passover with you before the time comes for me to suffer.
Kind Regards.
George
lilitalienboi16:
That is correct George. Check strong's usage of the word desire. Its the same word used for Lust. Same exact word.
God bless,
Alex
cheekie3:
Alex -
Thank You for confirming this:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on August 22, 2016, 05:47:43 PM ---That is correct George. Check strong's usage of the word desire. Its the same word used for Lust. Same exact word.
God bless,
Alex
--- End quote ---
Kind Regards.
George
Dave in Tenn:
There's a good example. "Lust" is "desire" and whether or not "doing it" is wrong depends on the motive of the heart and the thing being lusted after/desired. It's not a bible word, it's a word that's in the bible. Replace "lust" with "desire" in any passage I know of and the meaning doesn't change. In my view, it even helps, because "desire" has less theological baggage than "lust"...at least it would until it doesn't any more. ;)
Same with "sin". Hamartia:
G266
ἁμαρτία
hamartia
Thayer Definition:
1) equivalent to 264
1a) to be without a share in
1b) to miss the mark
1c) to err, be mistaken
1d) to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour,to do or go wrong
1e) to wander from the law of God, violate God’s law, sin
2) that which is done wrong, sin, an offence, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act
3) collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many
Mr. Thayer didn't invent those definitions. He compiled them from usage within the scripture (or at least his understanding of its use in scripture). One word (depending on the 'context') may mean any of those. But it's use is not limited to the Scripture. It's a word, so it can be used in other ways as well.
Further complicating things is that there are other so-called "bible-words" in many of those definitions, and a propensity to conflate the meaning of "sin" with any number of other so-called "bible-words" like wickedness, iniquity, unrighteousness, and (the one Ray wrote a bit about) "evil". Should they always be synonyms? Maybe yes, maybe no.
My use of "you" was generic and not intended to be personal (to you or anybody else). But there are people to whom it applies, so maybe I was typing beyond you to other readers who might understand.
My personal bible-study is mostly about two things: 1. To see if what somebody says is actually true. That's the "Berean" motive. 2. To take the scripture out of the mouths of theologians and preachers and bore down into what it really says--to understand the words as SOUND LANGUAGE, and perhaps to gain a better sense of the flavor (the "spirit"?) of a statement or passage.
The first can be "doctrinal". There are plenty of guys-with-bibles and no end to statements. I have a few and have made more than a few myself. The second is mostly just for me. It's not necessarily doctrinal, but might become so by accident. It's motive is the rest of 2Ti 3:16,17 All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, so that the man of God may be perfected, being fully furnished for every good work.
Which brings me roundabout to the other post. What makes a "good work"? Paul certainly seemed to be saying that it wasn't (among other things) his "blamelessness" according to the law.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version