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Right doctrin?
cheekie3:
Porter -
You have presented this very well:
--- Quote from: Porter on December 12, 2016, 09:52:38 AM ---I don't know about any minimum, but I do know that a chosen of God has to have left their "first love" and had "the beast within" revealed to him or her first before the process of salvation can begin.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
It really seems to me that if one hasn't at least been shown that everything they once believed concerning God was a lie and that they really truly never knew who Jesus was, then it's quite possible they were never chosen.
Overcoming the flesh, the carnal mind, this wicked world, the beast within and judgment could be considered a minimum, but that would be an understatement in my opinion, as they are quite the massive feats to accomplish. Without that there can be no salvation.
It's all good news, and the best news is that eventually everyone will know in that day.
--- End quote ---
Ray said, that the hardest thing ever, is 'Getting Saved' - and I would expect that part of this process would be to know quite a lot of 'His Doctrine Truths', as well as knowing 'all' the 'false doctrines'.
Warmest Regards.
George
Dennis Vogel:
If someone leaves their first love then they most likely already know the false doctrines.
IMO, Ray was talking more about getting the new doctrines in your heart (not just learning) and the extreme difficulty in overcoming and renewing our minds.
Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Hellisfake:
Thank you guys for all your replies, it's a blessing to have all of you in my life, you guys and girls are so full of knowledge and wisdom. May God bless you with more of his spirit of revelation. :) ;) :D
Dave in Tenn:
I think Porter hits it on the head while thinking about "other people". It's difficult at best for me to relate to people who have not experienced the "falling away" and the revelation of the beast within. It doesn't much matter what else they think...if they fail to see themselves in the scripture in a "bad" way, they have little to share with me.
There are plenty of "guys with bibles". Some of them probably ought not to be teaching, but they are. Everybody carries at least a little baggage, and nobody will get rid of it all until it's proven of no value.
This is interesting, I think:
Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
The "evil" in verse 2 is an adjective: G2556 κακός kakos. "Then which are" is not in the Greek but is implied because "evil" is an adjective. It could just as easily be rendered "that which is evil".
Here's the kicker, though. THIS word translated evil has a specific meaning of "worthless". That's pretty much the definition of "baggage" and "of no value" and "every weight, and sin which so easily entangles us".
All "Idols of the heart" have to fall or be destroyed. If for no other reason, than that they are "worthless".
"...and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars." seems to me to be an additional statement, and not exactly a repeat of "thou canst not bear them (that) which are (is) evil." The former is about false prophets and teachers teaching or LIVING LIES. The latter is not necessarily that, but the inability to bear that which is WORTHLESS. These are the things Ray pointed out in his list of "physical things that do not make one Spiritual", as well as other places scattered through the emails, etc. No grown son is drawn to things that are worthless. No grown son can stand a religious hobbyist, no matter how well-meaning.
Now, to your question: People are not allowed even a measure of LIES. Liars will be CAST into the Lake of Fire. People are allowed to work through other issues of theological interest and their FRUIT will show them up. WORTHLESSNESS doesn't produce WORTH. It IS something to be saved from, however. Better sooner than later.
Are these "teachers" chosen of God to judge the world? How can they judge the world if they have not judged themselves?
But if they misunderstand a verse or three yet still believe on the NAME of Jesus and don't deny His power to Save? Judge them by their fruit. Good fruit. Some thirty, some sixty, some a hundred-fold.
That's my thinking.
dave:
--- Quote from: Geoff on December 12, 2016, 12:03:06 AM ---Hello,
There is no Level!!
Do you have the 'Spirit Of The Lord' (Holy Spirit) dwelling within you. I am assuming that you do.
Okay. You have what I call 'Holy Spirit Perception' as well as the Assurance that you will be Saved if you Endure to the End.
In all of the Lords Parables what is the common attribute.
The Parables are all Created from what the Lord saw happening around Him all through his Life.
These Parables have One common theme and that is: 'The Called And The Chosen'.
You have this same perception wherever you go and whatever you do.
Learn from these because they will confirm 'The Word'. Hence 'Truth'.
I am afraid that you will not learn much by just Hearing 'The Word'.
But by Doing what 'The Word' says, it will be Confirmed to you by what you Do and 'See'. Hence 'Really' Learning.
One thing I learned through my life was just to Rest in the Lord. Instead of getting caught up in what his will is or is not. Just rest in the fact that whatever you are doing he is there with you and teaching you as you go.
As far as Doctrine is concerned there must two or more Witnesses of Spiritually Matching Scriptures for it to be Doctrine, therefore Safe to Teach as Truth.
Love To You And Yours. Regards, Geoff.
P.S. Love Others not in word but in Deeds. Actions speak louder than Words. It is no good Sprouting Scriptures to someone if there is no Love in your Heart for them. They know your love by your actions. If you are Love in Word only they will not Hear you, but Love in action Speaks Volumes. Your Words will be more readily accepted if you have been Love in Action First. This goes a long way to 'Overcoming Sin'. Unfortunately On this Forum alone it is very hard to do.
--- End quote ---
:)
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