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when the saints come marching in
EKnight:
Kat,
--- Quote ---Babies will be brought back to physical life too and raised up and go through the pulls of the flesh and carnality and have the learn righteousness as well.
--- End quote ---
When the wicked are resurrected, they are resurrected to physical life on this physical earth? Such as was Lazarus and the saints that were resurrected with Christ "on the third day"? Like they get a second chance here on earth? While Christ and the Elect rule the earth?
I'm so confused. ??? ??? ??? ???
Eileen
Marky Mark:
--- Quote from: EKnight on April 20, 2009, 09:32:48 AM ---Kat,
--- Quote ---Babies will be brought back to physical life too and raised up and go through the pulls of the flesh and carnality and have the learn righteousness as well.
--- End quote ---
When the wicked are resurrected, they are resurrected to physical life on this physical earth? Such as was Lazarus and the saints that were resurrected with Christ "on the third day"? Like they get a second chance here on earth? While Christ and the Elect rule the earth?
I'm so confused. ??? ??? ??? ???
Eileen
--- End quote ---
Eileen,Hope this helps :)
Email to Ray.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7560.0.html
Dear Diran: Your questions are not worded precisely enough to know exactly what you are asking, but I'll make a try at it with a few COMMENTS.......
Good day sir,
May God give you more wisdom in the teaching of His word.
Now I want to ask question on this issue of resurrection which is confusing.
1. It is agreed that the believer/saint of God will resurrect with spiritual or glorified bodies if this are the same to reign with Christ. Now is Christ reigning physically as a person on this earth?
COMMENT: First, Jesus IS "a person." Who would He reign as a non-person? What is a "non-person?" Christ will reign spiritually, but that spiritual reign has many physical manifestations. Was Jehovah a "physical" God over Israel? It is difficult to even know what you mean by such a phrase. God is not physical, but He can and does interact with physical people. And yes, it will be on this "earth," not on some other world or plant or heavenly realm.
if yes then are the resurrected saint reigning with Him in spiritual bodies while He reign physically? this is confusing. Pls shed more light scripturally.If this lake of fire is spiritual, then I agree that the torment will be for ever. What is your stake on this?.
COMMENT: I'm sorry, but I just don't get that? Do you mean while Christ is "reigning physically with a spiritual body?" or "reigning physically with a physical body?" When Jesus was resurrected "SPIRITUALLY," He still had the power to manifest Himself in several DIFFERENT forms or bodies--the stranger walking with the two men to Emmaus, the gardener, the stranger on the shore, and as His old physical self with holes in His body.
Apparently God's Servants will be able to physically manifest themselves so that they can be SEEN:
Isa 30:20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall SEE thy teachers:
And on other occasions they will NOT be seen:
Isa 30:21 And thine ears shall HEAR a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.
2. The wicked are to resurrect physically to face judgment in the lake of fire which is the second death. If the lake of fire is spiritual as per your writeup, how on earth can one be physically thrown into the spiritual lake of fire.
COMMENT: Did you actually read my Installment: "Hades and the Second Death?" We (if we are the Elect of God), right here and now, in our physical flesh, go through the second death/lake of fire, and that fire is SPIRITUAL! We in the flesh do not go through LITERAL fire to be spiritually cleansed and purified. We go through spiritual fire. Our literal trails are spiritual fire and spiritual judgment. Why can't physical people go through spiritual trials and judgment? Peter calls them "FIERY trials" (I Pet. 4:12). Maybe re-read my last Installment.
God be with you,
Ray
Peace...Mark
aqrinc:
These Scriptures are either correct and prove why everyone must be cleansed or they are wrong and young ones need no cleansing. None that does good, none righteous, none that seeks after GOD, all sin, not a just man on earth. Just in these few Scriptures the answer shouts out, read them in any context and the same answer is still there.
Gen 3:19 (MKJV)
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Ecc 7:20 (KJV)
For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
Rom 3: 10-11 (KJV)
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Heb 9: 27-28 (MKJV)
27 And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many. And to those who look for Him He shall appear the second time without sin to salvation.
Rom 11:32 (GW)
God has placed all people into the prison of their own disobedience so that he could be merciful to all people.
Rom 11:32 (MKJV)
For God has shut up all in unbelief, so that He might show mercy to all.
george. :)
Kat:
Hi Eileen,
--- Quote ---When the wicked are resurrected, they are resurrected to physical life on this physical earth? Such as was Lazarus and the saints that were resurrected with Christ "on the third day"? Like they get a second chance here on earth?
--- End quote ---
That is my understanding of it.
--- Quote ---While Christ and the Elect rule the earth?
--- End quote ---
Yes Christ and the Elect will rule the earth, but as spirit beings I believe they will live in the heavenly, where Christ is now with the Father.
1Th 4:17 then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.
This earth is not the the place we should be seeking to remain, spiritual being have a spiritual domain. But just as Christ could manifest Himself on earth instantly, I think so it will be with the Elect.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland.
Heb 11:15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Terry:
After reading this reply by Ray it seems to say that the old testament saints lived by faith and since we're not saved by faith but by grace through Jesus it seems the old testament saints won't be in the first resurrection unless they are of Gods elect which puts me back where i started, Totally Confused
Terry
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Do i understand correctly that all the old testament saints will have to go through God's great white thrown judgement?
This is the answer to an email to Ray, I think it covers your first question.
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http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,839.0.html
Dear Dave:
Your teachings are neither spiritual, nor logical, nor Scriptural. Perhaps you should study your bible a little more.
What did any of the ancient patriarchs know of "saving grace?" Answer: Nothing! And why is that? Because: "For the LAW was given by Moses, but GRACE AND TRUTH came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:18). Grace did not come before Christ, hence: No one was saved before Christ. "These ALL died in faith [how many? 'ALL.'] in faith [did they all have faith? Yes. Are we 'saved by faith?' NO--'By GRACE ye are saved....' Eph. 2:8. Did they nonetheless receive the promise of immortal life? NO....] NOT having received the promises..." (Heb. 11:13).
Could not the Patriarchs receive salvation through the faith that they had BEFORE Jesus came to die for their sins? NO. No Patriarch will be saved except through God's chosen elect: "And these ALL [how many? 'ALL'] having obtained a good report through faith, received NOT THE PROMISES: God having provided some better thing for US, that THEY without US should NOT be made perfect [Gk: 'complete.']" (Heb. 11:13 & 39-40).
Well then, if their faith and good report did not and cannot make them 'complete,' pray what can make them 'complete?' Answer: "And ye ['ye' believers in Jesus, not those who knew not Jesus and did not have Jesus live in them, and who were not 'crucified with Christ,' etc., etc., etc.]...and ye are COMPLETE [how?] IN H-I-M [JESUS]" (Col. 2:10), etc., etc., etc.
Sometimes, Dave, it is also good to have a 'teacher' to help you understand the things that you miss by studying on your own.
God be with you,
Ray
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