> General Discussions
kill or don't kill - does God change?
chuckt:
at the risk of sounding insensative, its no big deal, one third of mankind is killed in war, others are killed in
unspeakable acts, we all die, are wwe not in the valley of death?
and so, what a great and glorious God we have, all those that died before are raised with us, all
will be given life.
this physical world is temporary!!
2Cr 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen [are] temporal; but the things which are not seen [are] eternal.
guess what:
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
here are wonderfull words:
20 (Yet now Christ has been roused from among the dead, the Firstfruit of those who are reposing.
21 For since, in fact, through a man came death, through a Man, also, comes the resurrection of the dead.
22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.23 Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;
24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
woohoooo
gmik:
--- Quote from: DWIGHT on January 05, 2007, 02:49:16 PM ---Dear Sorin,
The literal scriptures are almost too much for us. Killings, rapes, murders etc., etc. But remember that Ray has told us that the bible is a great parable. And the first principal for us in understanding His word is; first comes the natural and then comes the spiritual. The first Adam was natural and the last Adam is spiritual. The old man, who is carnal, is natural; the new man, is spiritual. The scriptures are examples, metaphors and parables and they represent the whole picture of God's purpose. God wants children and God wants His children to be just like Him. He is very jealous over us. The old testament was us under the law. Death reigned in us and the law made us guilty. God wanted no part of us under the law of sin and death. He wants to kill all of the old in us and have us entirely to Himself in newness.
It is impossible to understand this with our old (man) mind. God has abolished the old; murdered it, killed it, ground it to powder. And now, through His Son has nailed it (all the old) to His cross. Therefore, in God's mind, all is new in Him. The old is gone and all is new.
Today, God is still murdering our old man with all its carnality and wickedness. Paul said, "I die daily.....we are buried with Him." Think of the scriptures as God and you. The old testament is the old you; carnal, wicked, lost under the condemnation of the law, dead in your sins. The new testament is the new you; being saved, under grace, no condemnation because your now in Christ. Old things are passing away and behold all thing are becoming new.
I hope this helps a little.
In His love,
Dwight
--- End quote ---
My thinking is like yours but it doesn't always come to me first thought. I first see it naturally- yes killing is different from murder. Yes, killing a child made sense bcz they grew up to be adult enemies. But when I see it spiritually as in parables it resonates within me that it is the truth. (of course, they can both be truth)
Jesus was showing us the weakness of the flesh, murder?? why if you even think to lust after someone that is the same as...--'same as' is a simile, not the exact same thing. I am sure He was speaking of the spirit.
Pax, an e mail is different from one of Ray's papers. He also may not have felt well as we have just found out. EVERYTHING on this forum is based on the premise that we DO think the Bible (greek/hebrew) is God's Words, and that Jesus is His Son.
Sorin, PM Joe or Dennis or Chris if you didn't get your answer. Maybe they can help.
love,
gena
Yes, woooohooooo
TRUTHSEEKER:
--- Quote from: Sorin on January 05, 2007, 01:03:46 PM ---I understand the difference between kill and murder as Ray pointed out, but I still don't see how 'smite them' versus 'love your enemies' is not God changing His mind. I mean in the OT he used the Jews to kill off many Gentile nations, smite every male and even to take their virgin women for themselves, now we are told to not even look at a woman to lust after her.
--- End quote ---
In the old testament, God told the Israelites to kill/smite/destroy their enemies. This is true. The reason for this in its simplest form (I believe) is 1) God wanted his people to be a peculiar people. Not a people like those of whom they were surrounded with. Not to be adjusting to pagan ways and customs but rather to be the catalyst by which change occurs in the Earth. This of course was the natural preceeding the spiritual. The spiritual reality of this today is as children of God we too (the real jew) are to be a peculiar people. We too are to separate ourselves from the ways of the world and adopt God's way and alligning our will to HIS WILL. 2) God wanted the fear of Israel to be well known among all other nations. God had already promised to Israel that whereever their feet trod shall be their inheritance. In other words, as soon as a neighboring nation even heard that Israel was on the move they knew to get out of the way because they had a God who fights for them. The spiritual realization is that we too have a God who fights for us. Not only is He with us but IN us. When the world sees us, they ought to be the one's intimidated because we have God's holy spirit abiding in us. God did not change his mind when Jesus commanded us to love our enemies. You must remember that Jesus is the FULFILLMENT of the law and the prophets. As the fulfillment of the law, Jesus brought to us spiritually what the law could not do naturally or physically. In the physical, we fight,war, and battle our way in life as the Israelites did. In the spirit we are in what God calls rest. We who are in Christ Jesus are in God's rest. We don't need to fight for that which is physical but remain in the peace and rest that is in God which is spiritual. We no longer have to fight and kill surrounding nations in the flesh. That is all apart of the old covenant. We are not under the old but the new. Under the new we ought to love our enemies. This is all a part of being the fulfillment of the old or to say it better it is the spiritual reality of the new covenant. Not lusting after women or men for that matter is also the fulfillment of the old and spiritual reality of the new covenant. Once again, God never changes his mind. All God did was bring about the spiritual reality (the new covenant) of what the old covenant was preparing us for. I hope this helps. I left out all of the scriptural references for space sake. If you want them I can provide. Be blessed.
Slim:
Hi Sorin,
I too have often wondered on the apparent change of heart that God had with the coming of Jesus. He was a harsh taskmaster many times in the OT and people died. God was very strict if we have an accurate accounting. And then he gave us Jesus and everything changed. I am amazed at his generosity. Thank God for Jesus or I might have been "smote" myself. I wish I could answer your question, but I cannot. Sorry, at least you know you are not alone in your observation. :)
SandyFla:
Sorin,
I can understand your confusion in this, as I don't understand myself.
Some have told me that God used the Israelites to kill off groups of people that He had no more use for after He used them to punish Israel. But if God wanted them dead, couldn't He have done it Himself (e.g., Noah & the flood/Sodom & Gomorrah)?
Sandy
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