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kill or don't kill - does God change?
rrammfcitktturjsp:
Sandy,
God did use the flood himself to kill the people excepting Noah and his family. If you know of any man who can flood the earth please send them down here to West Texas. We need rain and I think are in a drought condidion. There's another prayer request, rain for West Texas. There were also the 10 Plagues on Egypt. The magicians themselves said around the 3, 4, or 5th plague [I cannot remember], "back off Pharoah, please let the people go, THIS IS THE FINGER OF GOD." Yes He used Moses and Aaron to manifest the miracles, but he was behind it all along. We need to see God behind all these things and know this is His will. And there was another case where he killed someone for touching the Ark of the Covenant. Hmmm, and there were some people that were cuasing trouble when Moses and the Israelites were in the desert that God did cause the earth to swallow them up whole.
I believe it is more meaningful when God uses other vessels for judging and punishing. It makes it more down to earth and more poignant. Thought the finger of God is just or more awesome than his holy wrath at human hands. God will use anything for a wake up call. That's what I like, I see balence when I read the OT. God has risen entire nations for the purpose of scourging Israel, and I believe that is what is going on with the nations that are so Anti-American. I believe we need this type of chastisement, heck nothing has worked up to this point.
In the end it is important to remember that God is willing that none perish. How we work this in with this thread, I am not sure, but this I know God is control and has his reasons. I will and have no problem with those or myself when we question God's perfect will, becuase sometimes it does not make sense. I think this is good to do. It merely defines where we are and helps us grow stronger. Great thread.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
TRUTHSEEKER:
God will have no one perish because he is the one..."Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" (I Tim 2:4-5). God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge (Hosea 4:6) in this present age but it will not always be so. Jesus came for this very reason. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
rrammfcitktturjsp:
Truthseeker,
Thanks for posting this. It simplistically and elegantly sums up what I have posted. Sometimes I am little too wordy. ;)
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
rrammfcitktturjsp:
Hi,
I found an e-mail that relates to this thread. If I find any more I shall post them in this particular post.
Murder?
« on: September 17, 2006, 08:14:15 »
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Dear Ray,
Why did God command Israel to murder in the OT despite the commandment "Thou Shall Not Kill"? Didnt Jesus say, "love your enemies"?
Thanks for everything, God has truly blessed me through your site. Hope to hear from you soon God bless.
Joed
Dear Joed:
You have it completely backwards: God commanded Israel to "kill" their enemies, however, the seventh commandment is "thou shalt not MURDER." The same holds for the New Tesament commandment (Matt. 5:21). The translators didn't quite get that one right. God used his physical nation of Israel to Judge the heathens in the land of Canaan, where as in the future God will use his Spiritual Nation of Israel to Judge the whole word system of Babylon the Great.
God be with you,
Ray[/color]
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi Sorin
Funny enough....this excerpt I am going to post now for you, was first introduced to me in the Poetry Thread! 8)Hope it helps you. It is from Ray's second letter to James Kennedy.
RELATIVE VS. ABSOLUTE
If a theologian can't see the "absolute" versus the "relative" in Scripture, he is in no position to teach anyone.
A little boys asks: "Why did God say in Gen. 3:9: 'Where art thou [Adam]?' Mommy says that God knows everything." (I Jn 3:20). You say, "Of course God knew where Adam was. Adam sinned. Adam felt bad. He thought he could hide from God. God was condescending to man's level. It was for Adam's benefit that God asked, 'Where art thou Adam?'" You say, "That's not a problem. That's easy to understand and answer. It's stupid to think that God didn't know where Adam was."
And, of course, we have Scriptural proof that God knew where Adam was because "He [God] knows all" (I Jn 3:20)
Neither did our Lord ask questions out of ignorance:
"Believe ye that I am able to do this?" (Matt. 9:28)
"Who is my mother, and who are my brethren?" (Matt. 12:48)
"How many loaves have ye?" (Matt. 15:34)
"Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?" (Matt. 116:13)
Christ asked dozens of questions during His ministry. But He already knew all the answers:
" ... because of His knowing ALL men ... " (Matt. 21:27).
Christ even answered questions by asking questions. The Pharisees asked why His disciples transgressed the "traditions." Our Lord knew how to "answer a fool according to his folly" (Prov. 26:5) by asking: "Wherefore are you also transgressing the precept of God because of your tradition?" (Mat. 15:3)
This brings up another apparent contradiction, however, because Prov. 26:4 says: "answer not a fool according to his folly ... " Our Lord knew how to do that as well: "Neither am I telling you by what authority I am doing these things." (Mat. 21:27). These two scriptures in Proverbs should teach us to never pit one verse of Scripture against another. Verse 4 and 5 do not contradict. They are both true.
So if it's stupid to think that God didn't really know where Adam was, a relative statement condescending to man's level, isn't it then, likewise, stupid to believe that God contradicts Himself in the following verses:
THE RELATIVE:
THE ABSOLUTE:
" ... seek, and ye shall find ... " (Mat. 7:7) "Not one is seeking out God" (Rom. 3:11)
"God changed His mind" (Ex. 32:14) "God is not a man Who changes His mind" (I Sam. 15:29)
" ... choose you this day whom ye will serve." (Josh. 24:15) "Ye have not chosen me,
but I have chosen you ... " (Jn. 15:16)
" ... whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God ... " (I Jn. 3:10) "All is of God" (II Cor. 5:18)
"Zechariah was just before God" (Lk. 1:5) (Comparing him to the corrupt priests) "Not one is just" (Rom. 3:10)
(Comparing man with God)
One is the "relative" the other is the "absolute." One is from man's point of view, comparing men with men, the other is from God's point of view. One shows how a thing is perceived while the other shows how it actually is. One is for minors while the other is for the mature.
Both Scriptures are true. The relative is true and the absolute is true. They do not contradict. However, one really is "relative" while the other is "absolute."
Theologians are always taking Scriptures that speak of the relative, from man's point of view, and insist that these verses are absolute. By doing this they commit a double sin. Because then they insist that these relative truths actually nullify God's absolute declarations. They won't admit to this in their own words, but this is what they do when they retain the "relative" at the expense of rejecting the "absolute."Unquote
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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