> General Discussions
kill or don't kill - does God change?
TimothyVI:
I sincerely hope that I do not get banned, or get this thread locked. I am a little unclear about
whether we are permitted to dissagree or not. I have the same question as sorin about the appearance
that God changed somewhere between the pre Christ age and the age of Jesus.
Most of the replies to sorin in this thread were just an attempt to justify the actions of the old testament God in my opinion.
Of course God needs no justification, or reason for anything that He does. He is God!
That still does not answer the question, did God change? In the old testament God had people hacking up
other people for no apparent reason other than that they happen to be sitting on some land that God wanted to give
to someone else. O.K. that is a little stretch of the scriptures, but you know what I am talking about. If a group of strangers marched into your town and killed every man there, you would be hard pressed to not call it murder. So I think you are splitting hairs trying to draw a distinction between thou shall not kill, or thou shall not murder.
Then in the new testament, God tells us not only that we should not hurt our enemies, but in fact we should love them.
I don't see where this has anything to do with relavent or absolute. This is a question concerning the
apparent attributes of God. And did they change.
I have to agree with Pax Vobiscum. I read the old testament because there is much there that I need to learn.
But I tend to place all of my faith in what Jesus had to say while he lived among us.
Sorin, I hope that you got the answer that you sought in the replies posted above. I respect and love all of these people,
and really appreciate their attempts to help when we have questions.
But I fear that none of the answers were of much help to me concerning this particular issue. Even Ray's reply left me still needing an answer.
Tim
TRUTHSEEKER:
--- Quote from: TimothyVI on January 05, 2007, 08:12:49 PM ---I sincerely hope that I do not get banned, or get this thread locked. I am a little unclear about
whether we are permitted to dissagree or not. I have the same question as sorin about the appearance
that God changed somewhere between the pre Christ age and the age of Jesus.
Most of the replies to sorin in this thread were just an attempt to justify the actions of the old testament God in my opinion.
Of course God needs no justification, or reason for anything that He does. He is God!
That still does not answer the question, did God change? In the old testament God had people hacking up
other people for no apparent reason other than that they happen to be sitting on some land that God wanted to give
to someone else. O.K. that is a little stretch of the scriptures, but you know what I am talking about. If a group of strangers marched into your town and killed every man there, you would be hard pressed to not call it murder. So I think you are splitting hairs trying to draw a distinction between thou shall not kill, or thou shall not murder.
Then in the new testament, God tells us not only that we should not hurt our enemies, but in fact we should love them.
I don't see where this has anything to do with relavent or absolute. This is a question concerning the
apparent attributes of God. And did they change.
I have to agree with Pax Vobiscum. I read the old testament because there is much there that I need to learn.
But I tend to place all of my faith in what Jesus had to say while he lived among us.
Sorin, I hope that you got the answer that you sought in the replies posted above. I respect and love all of these people,
and really appreciate their attempts to help when we have questions.
But I fear that none of the answers were of much help to me concerning this particular issue. Even Ray's reply left me still needing an answer.
Tim
--- End quote ---
I don't think that you'd be banned for disagreeing. You might be banned for causing contempt among other forum users but not for desiring knowledge. I too desire knowledge thus the moniker truthseeker. It is a healthy desire to understand that which seems hard to understand. The answer according to the Word is that God doesn't change...ever! That is a scriptural truth. God doesn't change. This is absolute truth. It 'appears' to us that God changes because in the old testament has God doing or saying one thing and in the new testament he says another. I'm in agreement with Ray that one is relative while the other is absolute. You mentioned that it appears that God had people hacking up
other people for no apparent reason other than that they happen to be sitting on some land that God wanted to give
to someone else. In fact, there was a great purpose in this. Not so much in the act of 'hacking' up people but rather to be a judge over all the other nations as God's anointed chosen people. I believe that God committed his people to doing this because as the scripture says the natural preceeds the spiritual. Old testament Israel were God's elect during that age. In the age to come we the true Jew will inherit the earth and not just some piece of land. We will judge the Earth with Christ. We will exercise power and authority and dominion in the Earth just as Israel of old were to judge the nations. I too would be hard pressed to call it murder if some group of people came into my town or home for that matter and destroyed my home and family. But remember, this is relative from man's point of view. The absolute in this is always God. He uses the physical to emerge with the spiritual. This is not God changing at all. The old covenant and its ten commandments were a schoolmaster for us so that we would know what the difference is between right and wrong. When Christ's spirit enters and changes the lives of them that believe we no longer need laws written on tablets of stone because God's higher spiritual laws will be wriiten on our hearts and minds. The spiritual is the fulfillment of the natural. This is God's way. I believe many will always have problems with this concept because as the scriptures says God's ways are not our ways neither are his thoughts our thoughts. We must have the mind of Christ to fully comprehend these truths. I encourage all in the forum to keep on asking and pursuing God with all your heart and I believe he will reveal you all you need to know.
John:
--- Quote ---I'm in agreement with Ray that one is relative while the other is absolute.
--- End quote ---
Um..O.K
As if my confusion is not complicated enough, the replies to Sorins post have only added to it. I agree with Sorin, I am confused with the whole thing, and as far as one being relative and the other absolute, which is which? Is is an absolute that God ordered Israel to do what it seems? That seems simple enough to me, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE, I would have to say yes, He did. Is it an absolute that Jesus gave the commandment to love your enemies? That’s another easy question, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE, yes He did. Is it an absolute that from the OT to the NT that God changed? Ok, somebody jump in and answer this one and that should take care of it.
Is any of this relative? ABSOLUTELY
Back to complicated confusion,
Peace,
John
TRUTHSEEKER:
Um..O.K
As if my confusion is not complicated enough, the replies to Sorins post have only added to it. I agree with Sorin, I am confused with the whole thing, and as far as one being relative and the other absolute, which is which? Is is an absolute that God ordered Israel to do what it seems? That seems simple enough to me, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE, I would have to say yes, He did. Is it an absolute that Jesus gave the commandment to love your enemies? That’s another easy question, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE, yes He did. Is it an absolute that from the OT to the NT that God changed? Ok, somebody jump in and answer this one and that should take care of it.
Is any of this relative? ABSOLUTELY
Back to complicated confusion,
Peace,
John
--- Quote ---
--- End quote ---
Well, in my little attempt to assist you...here goes. When Ray spoke on that which is relative he meant how things 'appear' from our perspective. The absolute is God's perspective or the reality of it all if you will. I think why you're confused is that you are confusing the two themes as it relates to actual events. Relative and Absolute (I believe) has nothing to do with actual events but rather differing perspectives. For instance, does it appear that God changed in his dealings with mankind....of course. That is relative from our perspective. With God, the absolute truth is that he uses natural, phyical things of this life to bring about his purposes and plans. In this he never changed. Better yet think of it like this. God planned the course of all of history. He has never diverted from his original plans in his dealings with man. He used physical Israel of old to portray what was to come spiritually for us the spiritual Israel...the church. I don't think I can explain this any better. I pray this helps. If not, keep on praying and ask God to show you his truth. Be blessed.
John:
TRUTHSEEKER,
I am OK with being confused with the Topic, but thanks :)
Peace,
John
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