> General Discussions
kill or don't kill - does God change?
rrammfcitktturjsp:
Okay guys,
Here's some Scriptures.
Malachi 3:6 - "I the Lord do not change."
Hebrews 13:8 - "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever."
I am sure there are others that say that God does not change. I guess these two Scriptures are enough to answer the question for me whether God changes or not.
Of course you could argue this logically with the definition of God having a will that cannot be thwarted or any other premise.
Sincerely,
Anne C. McGuire
YellowStone:
Hey Guys and Gals, well done on a very interesting question from Sorin.
Sorin, I think I have an answer for you that may seem very simplistic and not outside the confines of most of the other posts.
What I have learned is that there God has three very distinct stages and to a very large extent, so do we as his people.
Rev 1:8
* I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
I think the answer to your question of God changing is found in the above verse. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the ending.
But what is more important, is that he is the WAS, the IS and WHICH WILL BECOME.
These are three very distinct stages and a clearly seen as such in both the Old and New Testaments. It is my understanding that God, the WAS is found in the Old Testament. These were the days of the physical.Have you ever noticed that many (if not all) references to Angels in the OT are of men who ate, slept, etc. There are no such references of angels after the birth of Christ; angels are then spiritual.
I maybe off base here, but I do not believe that the GOD of the OT should be compared to the NT because the message ist totally different. Here is why I believe this is true.
1Cr 15:45
* And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
The Physical Laws, Kings, prophets, etc. of the OT are for our benefit far more than it was for theirs. They had God as their leader, he spoke to them and gave them all amounts of power, wealth and knowledge, but not one person who had it all, (to my knowledge) ever kept in good standing with God, not even Solomon. Obviously God's people did not learn in those days, for they were very much part of the world, just as God planned.
However, with the coming of Christ in human form saw the second phase of GOD, this is the IS part. Here, many things change; God's people are told not to be part of the world, in fact the lessons of Jesus were all parables and as such spiritual. Jesus taught humility, compassion and love. He taught that the the meek, not the mighty shall inherit the earth and that the first shall be last and the last shall be first and as mentioned previously, angels are only referenced spiritually. What is more, our faith too has to be in spirit.
Eph 2:8-9
* 8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
* 9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Wherefore the God who was gave countless physical signs, the God who IS gives faith to who he chooses. The OT (in my opinion) cannot be compared to the NT for it is like apples and oranges. (I LOVE BOTH) This is not to say that valuable lessons cannot be found in both, for they can; but for the most part, the philosophy of both is different. I believe that the leson that the OT contains is that even with God helping them in clearly physical ways, carnal minded man was still not going to find salvation without Christ. Is that not a lesson for us still?
Who knows how the God who IS TO COME will differ from the those past? So does this mean that God changed or does it mean that God is in control and all is happening according to his will which was set from the beginning?
Does this make sense to you or anyone? Comments are always welcome. :)
Great question Sorin!
Love,
Darren
Kat:
Hi TRUTHSEEKER,
Your explanation certainly clarified this for me.
I think you showed how the relative and absolute applies very well.
--- Quote ---With God, the absolute truth is that he uses natural, phyical things of this life to bring about his purposes and plans. In this he never changed.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---The absolute in this is always God. He uses the physical to emerge with the spiritual. This is not God changing at all. The old covenant and its ten commandments were a schoolmaster for us so that we would know what the difference is between right and wrong. When Christ's spirit enters and changes the lives of them that believe we no longer need laws written on tablets of stone because God's higher spiritual laws will be wriiten on our hearts and minds. The spiritual is the fulfillment of the natural. This is God's way.
--- End quote ---
Darren, you put the finnishing touch on it for me.
--- Quote ---I believe that the leson that the OT contains is that even with God helping them in clearly physical ways, carnal minded man was still not going to find salvation without Christ.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---The Physical Laws, Kings, prophets, etc. of the OT are for our benefit far more than it was for theirs. They had God as their leader, he spoke to them and gave them all amounts of power, wealth and knowledge, but not one person who had it all, (to my knowledge) ever kept in good standing with God, not even Solomon. Obviously God's people did not learn in those days, for they were very much part of the world, just as God planned.
--- End quote ---
I appreciate your answers to this, as it has given me a clear understanding, and settled this for me :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
DWIGHT:
Darren, great post and Timothy don't worry about adding another twist to this thread, that's why we are all here. So let's re-look at what we said. Is the God of the OT different than the God of the NT? Like so many have stated, "I am the Lord, I change not...." Mal. 3:6. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever.....etc., etc. Can we really say that God (Jesus) is different today than He was in the OT? His purpose has not changed. He came in the OT to be God to His people and that they should live in the land that He promised to them. And that He would dwell among them. First in the tabernacle in the wilderness and then in the temple. In both places He would only dwell in the holiest of all. Only a few priests could get close to Him because the place where He was was holy. He promised that land to Abraham and his seed. That land was was precious because it was the only land where He Himself would dwell. Anybody that was not a part of that seed was to be driven out, killed, annililated. This was a type of what was to come.
In the NT, where does God (Jesus) now dwell? He dwells in you and me, right? What part of you and me does He dwell in? He dwells in our human spirit which is now the holiest of all. "..........and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." Jn. 3:6 Our spirit is the place where He dwells. It is now the holiest of all. That's how we can worship Him in spirit and in truth because that's where He is. We are the land, and within the land is the holiest of all where we can worship Him in spirit. Now the rest of our land consists of the soul and the body, right? That's where the battle is; that's where God is still driving out the old inhabitants of His land.
Have you ever heard Ray say, that when we die......what happens? Our spirit goes back to God, our soul goes to hades, ( the unseen or imperceptable), and our body returns to the dust. You know why are spirit goes back to God?.........Because He's in it. Now all His people are in this holy land....the real holy land, not Palestine. But in this land, God (Jesus) is still only letting a few priests get close to Him. Why? Because we are a chosen generaton, a royal priesthood.
But as Darren says, He was, is and will be. Well, we've seen the was and the is but what is He which shall come? "And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; and in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the son of man clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; and his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength." Rev. 1:12-16. This is our meek Saviour that John is talking about.....kinda sounds like the same who was, and is.....In the midst of the churches, He's still the same; driving out and burning out all that does'nt belong in His land which is His Kingdom.
I hope this builds us up a little,
God bless,
Dwight,
gmik:
Good job Dwight. Works for me.
gena
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