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Author Topic: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN  (Read 7363 times)

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Bradigans

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I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« on: January 28, 2007, 01:56:56 PM »

I'm living with a woman whom I love, and we have two kids. I'm not rationalizing, but I can't see the point of going down to some half drunk non believing magistrate or to some non standing for THE WORD denominized pastor. Mark 10:9 says - What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. God deals and His dealings are in the spiritual aren't they?   Can some half drunk magistrate or hypocritical pastor who requires tithes stand in the place of God? i have no problem with getting a marriage license, i just have a problem with hypocrisy and hypocrites. I pray so much on this issue, because I'm not seeking to be justified in men's eyes, but neither do i want to bring reproach to the name of Christ. Also, what did Jesus mean when He said in Matthew 22:30 - For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.    When He mentioned the word resurrection, was He referring to the spiritual rebirth into the kingdom (John 3:3) or am I taking this out of context? Thanks, and in His love,

Bradford
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2007, 02:16:20 PM »

Hello Bradigans

I have copied this for your consideration from Ray's e-mail responces: Jesus Married?
« on: January 24, 2007, 06:38:38 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Dear Mr. Smith:  you argue that Jesus was of the same flesh as man and inferior to God the Father.  So, although the scriptures are silent on this, if he was married, I fail to see why this should have any effect on my being a Christian.  Do you agree?
     
    Leticia
     

    Dear Laticia:
    Actually, I have never "argued that Jesus was...inferior to God His Father."  Jesus said that His Father was greater than He, but that is not my argument. Jesus also said that "I and My Father are ONE" (John 10:30).  Although there is no specific statement that Jesus never married, there are, nonetheless, many indicators that He did not. Marriage is the fulfillment of numerous "pulls of the flesh," and therefore is entered into by even the most pious persons, with certain carnal gratifications of the flesh in mind. Jesus did NOT consummate such desires of the flesh. He said He didn't come to be served (not even by a wife), but to be a Servant, etc.
    God be with you,
    Ray


Also,we follow Christ not His Disciples. We could find many reasons not to follow Christ if we had to use the examples of some of His followers. So as for Angels, perhaps they have no lust.

Commitment is a blessing even if the Magistrate is drunk the document is still legal and doesn't have to go for breath analysis to hold up in courts of law.  :D

My suggestion...get legal and/or blameless. There is much blessing in commitment besides which you are probalbly considered commonlaw man and wife due to your family arrangements but then again, I am not familiar with USA laws.

Peace to you

Arcturus :)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2007, 02:20:27 PM by Arcturus »
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Pax Vobiscum

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2007, 06:50:26 PM »

I am not sure why I am offering opinion on this except that your post is so conflicted.

You have a dilemma, yet your are so quick to justify your situation because you think that magistrates are half-drunk (is that like half pregnant?)  and pastors have been deemed beneath your nuptial quest.

Because you cannot find a sober (half sober??) magistrate or a pastor worthy to lead you down the aisle, you are not married and have children?  C'mon!

Obviously you have conflicted feelings on this or you would not have asked for advice.

My advice?  Remove the marital plank from your own eye so that you can see your situation clearer.

Just blowing off a little steam, brother,

Peace
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Bradigans

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2007, 07:08:23 PM »

Thanks for the advice brothers... Keep me in your prayers. I appreciate you all's frankness...
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Kat

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2007, 07:41:02 PM »

Hi Bradford,

I think that marriage is important for many reasons.  Adam and Eve were called husband and wife (Gen 3: 6,8), so they were married by God in some way.  
Here is an email from Ray, that might give you other possiblities.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2721.0.html ---------------------------

 Marriage
« on: May 07, 2006, 07:00:24 PM »      

hi Brother Ray, I have a question, my botfriend and I want to get married but we don't want to do it with the government. We both know that there is a marrage paper in the family bible. How do we go about it? is that a legal document? please help

thank you
love in Christ
jessica and lee


Dear Jessica:
Any Justice of the Peach at any Courthouse, or any Captain of a Cruise Ship can legally marry you for a few dollars. You can be married in any church or a wedding chapel.  There are reasons to have a legal marriage license, that can be of benefit to you and your family in later life.
God be with you,
Ray

-------------------------------------------

The part of your question about Matt 22: 30, I believe Jesus is talking about after being resurrected there will not be sexual relations, because for one thing I don't believe there will be children being born, but more than that I think that the time after resurrection people will be beyond physical relationships, as I believe sex is for the flesh gratification only.  that's just the way I see it  :-\
Here's another email from Ray.

http://bible-truths.com/email12.htm#angels ---------------------------------------------------------

[Ray Replies]

Dear Abed:

Thank you for your email and questions.

Gen. 6 has absolutely NOTHING to do with "fallen angels." The "sons of God" and the "daughters of men" is not speaking of mortals and spirit beings. This is just another one of Christendom's fables.

Jesus plainly told us that,

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God., For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage [why? why aren't they given in marriage? Answer....] ...but are AS THE ANGELS of God in heaven" (Matt. 22:30).

The angels CANNOT MARRY (they have no 'marriage apparatus' if you know what I mean). Yet we are told in Gen. 6:2, that "they took them WIVES of all which they chose." To have a "wife" one must be "MARRIED."   The sons of God and the daughters of men are BOTH HUMAN.

I believe that verse 4 of Gen. 6 is a terrible translation in the King James.  Since most translators have bought into the 'angels fornicating with women' theory, most of them have a very strange translation of this verse. There are whole words in this Hebrew verse that are not even translated at all in most versions.

Notice this translation from the Concordant Version:

"Now the DISTINGUISHED come to be in the earth in those days, and moreover, afterward, coming are those who are sons of God to the daughters of the human, and they bear for them. They are the MASTERS, who are from the eon, MORTALS with the name."

Sorry I don't have time to explain the meaning of all these verses, but at least I want you to know that this is not a case of angels fornicating with women.

God be with you,

Ray
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


« Last Edit: January 29, 2007, 10:38:43 AM by Kat »
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PKnowler

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2007, 08:25:56 PM »

Hi Bradford,

      When I was a teenager my mother use to tell me to save myself for marriage. I thought about it I wondered why it mattered. Then one day I was reading the Bible and I came across the word "fornication", I didn't know what it meant so I looked it up.
 I found out it means having sexual relations outside of marriage. That is what I needed to know. It is God's standard!

 I believe the Bible is God's inspired word and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

So it is my standard for living.

Here are some scriptures on fornication:

1Co 7:2
    Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Ephesians 5:3
    3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

1Co 6:18
    Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

Scriptures on marriage:

1Co 7:9
    But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Heb 13:4
    Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

1 Corinthians 7:14
    For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

There are other scriptures on fornication and marriage, you can look them up if you like.

From scripture I read that Marriage is God's design. It is not about whether we agree with the pastor or magistrate we need to be obedient to God!

God be with you as you seek to do His Will!

Blessings, Paula



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Bradigans

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2007, 01:35:19 AM »

Thanks dearly Kat and PKnowler. I really appreciate you alls input. It's nice to have a body I can take issues to through THE WORD. 1 Corinthians 12:26 says - And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.  Please be patient with me. I know some folks may feel this should be common sense. I try not to trust my head as much as the Holy Spirit leadings in and through my heart. This site and some of brother Ray's teaching have been a blessing to me. Up to a few weeks ago when I came acrosss some of brother Ray's teaching, I thought that I was the only one that thought there was something wrong with the denominized church. I haven't been to an organized church in years. I take nothing for granted and try not to assume anything, but try to be open to THE HOLY SPIRIT'S promptings through THE WORD. This is one reason I want to make certain it is THE SPIRIT'S leading through THE WORD and not tradition (men's precept) leading me to get a marriage license. Also, Kat I'm going to look at the site that you sent me from brother Ray on this issue also. I'm all about doing things (God's will) from the standpoint of THE SPIRIT in the spirit. I don't want to simply go through an outward show.

Anyway before I lose my thought on this issue of marriage and whether or not it's a ceremony, has anyone ever considered Genesis 24:67 - And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her: and Isaac was comforted after his mother's death?    Was the sex that was made out of love the marriage ceremony? Is that the uniting. As far as fornication, would that be taking something that belongs to God's temple that has God's Spirit, and joining it to the synogogue of Satan or synogogue of unbelievers? 1 Corinthians 3:16 - Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 1 Corinthians 6:15-17 - Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot (something that doesn't have God's Spirit such as an unbeliever)? God forbid. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.  2 Corinthians 6:14 - Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?    So couldn't fornication as far as a believer have a much deeper spiritual significance? Something (someone) who is a part of God's temple thus having God's Spirit yoking up with an unbeliever? Could folks be getting a license to sin and commit adultery if it's to an unbeliever? I know it looks politically correct, but is it God's Word? Folks have adulterous spirit's because they're (like Old Testament Israel) at odds with God's Word. Isaiah 1:13 - Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.    They were doing everything outwardly but were still living in spiritual adultery because they were against God's Word. I don't want to do anything to be politically correct, but I want to do things because it's right according to the Word. Whatever God's will is, i want it to be worked into my heart. I don't want this to get tedious. 
   
 
   
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PKnowler

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2007, 03:13:05 AM »

I am glad that you are open to counsel and seeking to do God's Will in this matter. As far as Isaac taking Rebekah and making her his wife by sexual relations- I do not know. I've never studied it. I would tend to think there was a ceremony. But I am not going to debate such things. I do know the sexual act makes two become one but I don't believe it makes them married because if it did there would be no fornication, only marriage or adultery. And God wouldn't have warned us to flee fornication. He would have said "fornicate and be fruitful". Just kidding!

Yes there is spiritual fornication and spiritual adultery but I would suggest that you be careful not to spiritualize away God's instruction.
I believe the physical is a prototype of the spiritual. The spiritual doesn't negate God's commandments it affirms them.

We are not to just live by the letter of the law but by the spirit of the law.

As I was thinking of your question a scripture came to me. This is not an all inclusive answer to your question but you might ponder it.

1 Corinthians 10:23 "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is constructive. 24 Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. 25 Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26 for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it." 27 If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. 28 But if anyone says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake-- 29 the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience? 30 If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for? 31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

Do you think you are a stumbling block to anyone? You say you are a follower of Christ while living in "sin". Whether you see it that way or not- many do. I am not saying that as judgment but to get you to think beyond yourself.

I hope I have not offended (too much)!

Blessings, Paula





« Last Edit: January 29, 2007, 03:28:55 AM by PKnowler »
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brothertoall

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2007, 09:05:10 AM »

Bradford I will give you my opinion on this marriage thing. First of all in the eyes of God a paper or ring on someones finger does not make a marriage. I have been married to the same women for almost 28 years and we lived together for over 5 years.

 Now what man sees as marriage and what it really means are 2 different things. marriage is not the paper or the ring but consists of love ,commitment, sharing, being There for each other through the good as well as the bad. C'mon ASdam and eve had no one to marry them and I am sure there was no gold ring to put on each others finger. God was the full authority in that union.

 Now it may be that it needs to be made legal depending on where you live and may involve being abble to claim your children and your mate for insurance purposes.

 Should you feel guilty because you do not have that piece of paper or ring to say that you are united as one. Me personally, I don't think so.

 I am sick and tired of people trying to give there definition of marriage. Loving one another,sharing your life with one another and being committed to one another is a union my friend. In the eyes of God you are both one and you have no problem with me on that matter. I know people who are married that should not be and yet they thought it was the right thing to do.According to who and what???

 God knows both of your hearts and it only matters what He thinks not what the WORLD thinks.

 Someone brought up fonication. I do not see where that pertains to this situation. If you are both faithful to one another and you are both one that is not fornication.

 A piece of paper and a ring does not make a marriage. LOVE for one another is what it is all about.

 Follow what God would have you to do not what man thinks you should do.

 I will probably get blasted for this Bradford but the ways of the world no longer appeal to me.

 And by the way I am quite sure that piece of paper or a ring on your finger is not going to change the way you feel about each other.If you both are commited to one another then in the eyes of God you are already married.

bobby
« Last Edit: January 29, 2007, 09:19:52 AM by brothertoall »
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Sorin

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2007, 10:39:40 AM »

Bobby,

I agree with you. People are so quick to point out that God married Adam and Eve and they were married in God's eyes and thus they did not fornicate. But then they insist that God no longer marries people, it is the church or court system which does that. I mean, c'mon, there's nothing wrong with two people loving each other and living together. Fornication would be just having random sex with random people who you just met at a party or night club etc....  now making a commitment (even without some silly paper/ring) to be with that person until death, that's not fornicating.

Now am I saying I'm against marriage, and making it officaly legal in the eyes of men? No, I'm not saying that, just that I don't believe what Bradigans is doing is "fornicating".
That's all.

Take care,
Sorin
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Craig

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2007, 10:46:00 AM »

Well since this forum is here because of the teachings of Ray, I've added some links where he has given his opinion on the question.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2679.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2798.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2668.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1441.0.html
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,679.0.html

Some of these may have been posted earlier.

I'm not sure living with a person or being commited makes them married in God's eyes.  When Jesus spoke to the woman at well in John 4, he obviously did not consider the man she was living with her husband.

I can see the points raised about a piece of government issued paper, but I can't see the word of God giving us a "free pass" on the matter either.

May God lead and guide you in this regard.

Blessings
Craig
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brothertoall

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2007, 10:48:35 AM »

Sorin exactly!! hey I may be from the 60's and 70's but I have always believed thet the woman I wanted to spend my whole life with did not require a piece of paper or a ring.

 bobby
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brothertoall

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2007, 10:57:23 AM »

Craig you did not mention that she previously had other men befor the one she was living with. Was she committed to one man? NO!!! if she had married this ONE man would that make her committed. I take from that to mean no. Marriage does not mean that there is total commitment. Some married people have affairs do they not?

 Ray has an opinion but I do not see where Ray is the authority on this subject. God is the one in control and I do not see where the srcripture speaks of ritual to make one married. it is the love ,committment and the body as being one that makes one married.

bobby
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Craig

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2007, 11:18:56 AM »

Craig you did not mention that she previously had other men befor the one she was living with.

No Bobby, I didn't mention it, but Jesus did He said "You have had five husbands, but" (BUT) "the one whom you now have had is not" (NOT) "your husband"   Something made the five "husbands", husbands in Jesus' thinking and the living together wasn't the thing.

This is a decision between a person and his/her maker, I would just say to be sure we are standing on firm ground with God before we try and justify anything with our carnal reasoning, when we do, we can justify almost anything and that is a slippery slope.

Blessings
Craig
« Last Edit: January 29, 2007, 11:19:39 AM by Craig »
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Sorin

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2007, 11:39:28 AM »

Craig you did not mention that she previously had other men befor the one she was living with. Was she committed to one man? NO!!! if she had married this ONE man would that make her committed. I take from that to mean no. Marriage does not mean that there is total commitment. Some married people have affairs do they not?

Ray has an opinion but I do not see where Ray is the authority on this subject. God is the one in control and I do not see where the srcripture speaks of ritual to make one married. it is the love ,committment and the body as being one that makes one married.

bobby


Exactly, Bobby! If you believe a physical ritual is required to make one married than you might as well believe in physical baptisms and circumcision, etc....
The funny part is, Ray will quickly admit that a physical baptism only makes you wet, it does not baptize you, that christian baptism is a physical ritual which accomplishes nothing, but when it comes to marriage, yes, absolutely, it must be a physical ritual of the flesh otherwise it doesn't count, it's null and void.

Houston, we have a problem.

Sorin
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longhorn

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2007, 11:56:35 AM »

Bradigan... To heck with the phony piece of paper signed by man, and save the money you would spend on a wedding (just to please a bunch of relatives you plobably dont like anyway) and take her on a 7 day cruise.

Longhorn
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brothertoall

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2007, 12:14:13 PM »

Bradford,

 Dear brother and friend. By your post I can see that you are very commited to this woman,your mate, and that you have children together. maybe some will look at this as though you are living in sin. Trust me brother I heard this from the world of christiandom many many times.

 I know what i felt in my heart and God also knew what was in my heart and to me brother it does not matter what man thinks it is what God knows that really counts.

bobby
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hillsbororiver

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2007, 12:30:43 PM »

1Ti 2:2  For kings and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
 
1Ti 2:3  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;

I believe we are admonished to keep the laws of the land as long as they are not in conflict with His Word. Should we make up our own rules or unabashedly flaunt time honored traditions, especially those that can be proven to promote a more solid family structure now that we are free to the Law of Moses?

Psa 78:63  The fire consumed their young men; and their maidens were not given to marriage.

We can all justify our actions or thoughts when it is convenient for us to do so but aren't we to follow Paul's lead and not cause others emotional strain so that we can be better witnesses for the Lord when the situation presents itself?

1Co 9:19  For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
 
1Co 9:20  And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
 
1Co 9:21  To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,)
 that I might gain them that are without law.
 
1Co 9:22  To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Pray about this and follow the convictions of the Spirit, I am in no position to judge anyone about this as I have also been in a relationship outside the bounds of matrimony, if someone were to ask me what is better, healthier, more rock solid and more condusive to a better family atmosphere than I would have to tell them marriage, I have lived both and feel qualified to at least have an opinion based on reality not supposition.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe




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hillsbororiver

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2007, 12:45:48 PM »

Craig you did not mention that she previously had other men befor the one she was living with. Was she committed to one man? NO!!! if she had married this ONE man would that make her committed. I take from that to mean no. Marriage does not mean that there is total commitment. Some married people have affairs do they not?

Ray has an opinion but I do not see where Ray is the authority on this subject. God is the one in control and I do not see where the srcripture speaks of ritual to make one married. it is the love ,committment and the body as being one that makes one married.

bobby


Exactly, Bobby! If you believe a physical ritual is required to make one married than you might as well believe in physical baptisms and circumcision, etc....
The funny part is, Ray will quickly admit that a physical baptism only makes you wet, it does not baptize you, that christian baptism is a physical ritual which accomplishes nothing, but when it comes to marriage, yes, absolutely, it must be a physical ritual of the flesh otherwise it doesn't count, it's null and void.

Houston, we have a problem.

Sorin

Do we reject Diplomas from High School or Universities using this logic?

How about Drivers Licenses?

Tax returns?

Do we fill out the forms to get a passport?

Do we fill out forms to adopt? 

How do we get a checking account, a savings account?

So then legally committing ourselves to our wife or husband is less of a matter than the "rituals" and "pieces of paper" required to do all (and more) of the things listed above?

Is a family more likely to remain intact during the tough times inside or outside marriage, yes, examples can be given on both sides of the question but which is more likely?

In our heart of hearts we know the answer.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

 
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brothertoall

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Re: I'M LIVING WITH A WOMAN
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2007, 12:57:45 PM »

Not all have degrees, not all are required to have passports who do not leave the country unless you are going to Kentucky ;D,ect... These things are a neccesity in those circumstances but I know of no man made law that says you have to be married to live with someone you truly love.Now before some of you accuse me of appling this to homosexuals I am talking about between a man and a woman.

 I knew a couple that lived together for 20 years and then finally got married. Were they not binding in the eyes of God or where they not for those 20 years that they were together?

bobby
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