> General Discussions
God's only begotten Son
Alan:
Hello everyone,
I only post on rare occasions, but I try and read the posts most of the time.
Anyway, am I missing something here?
I keep reading posts that talks about the Son coming out from the Father, and Him not being the first creation of the Father.
I'm guessing we all remember Rev 3:14, Col 1:15, and Prov 8: 22-31......at least I hope the rest of you do.
Three witnesses of scripture that tells us Christ was the first creation of His Father.
Christ is created and worthy of worship, because he is our Lord and Savior.......He is one with the Father.
Not trying to bust on anyone, but just stating the truth!
Also, I am not aware of any scripture that says Christ was eternal with the Father before the start of creation. If you have that, please post it.
And if you have one or two more, that would be extra special.
It's fun to search for the hidden treasure, as long as it doesn't conflict with the ultimate truth of scripture.
Peace,
Alan
Deborah-Leigh:
Kat
Thank you for sharing what your insights and what you see. It helps us all see the bigger picture. 8)
Hello MG
You ask : so does that mean that our spirit came out of God?
For me the answer is, Yes. God is a title. Jesus is God and one with God. God the Father is the SOURCE and origin of Christ. Christ is the source and origin of us. All that is is out of the Father even Christ. We are out of all that is given to Christ which is from the Father who has given Christ everything. When we are all conformed to the image of Christ then Christ will return everything back to the Father and HE, the Father will be all in all. He is not in all at this time. His Spirit is everywhere and there is no where that His Sprit is not. He knows the beginning from the end and the end HE will be all in all….but not until Jesus returns everything back to the Father.
Alan
I think this is where we need to look at that word begotten from above. Jesus was begotten of the Father…part of the Father as is the seed in the Father. The egg was the flesh of Mary into which the seed of God was planted and became man. Christ was always the Son or seed of God. The Spirit of Christ, that is the Holy Sprit begets us and we become the children of God begotten from the seed of Christ. This is our promise and hope within us that is greater than he who is in the world.
This could never happen in the OT. It could only happen after Christ became man and died as the wheat that fell to the ground and produces a harvest. Christ is that seed that died. People are either the harvest or the tare….. the counterfeiter, the imitator or the real thing. For me Mystery Babylon is the tare storehouse in the field of the world that is visited by Jesus who calls out His own.
Christ is the personification of Wisdom that is the Spirit of Gods nature. The Spirit of God is Christ. Christ is God’s Spirit that became man. We become the children of Christ when His Spirit is begotten in us and begins the work of transforming us into the image of our Creator that is Christ. We are the begotten of Christ and Christ is the begotten of God. There is only one who is the begotten of the Father and that is the pre-eminent and ever first begotten Son of God that is Christ Jesus. There is only one to whom the name Christ applies and that is to the Anointed of God that is Jesus Christ. We are being made into the image of Christ through whom all things to man have come through which all things were given by God to Him Who is Christ.
First the Father then the Son. The Son is not the product of the Fathers Spirit. He is the Fathers Spirit. There is no Trinity. All creation is the product of the Son who has created all things in heaven and earth. We are a product of God’s Son whose Spirit is at work in us to conform us to His image. ….. grand-kids! …chosen by God, dragged to Christ and changed by Christ to the image of Jesus. That is what God wants because that is who God loves….Jesus and Jesus is the only one who has perfectly pleased His Father and would have us, His creation, do the same!
….anyway… ….that is how I see it right now…….. :-\
Thank you for your insights
Peace to you :)
YellowStone:
Allan Asked:
I am not aware of any scripture that says Christ was eternal with the Father before the start of creation. If you have that, please post it.
And if you have one or two more, that would be extra special.
It's fun to search for the hidden treasure, as long as it doesn't conflict with the ultimate truth of scripture.[/i]
Hi Allan,
I can certainly provide you with more than two witnesses to the fact that Christ was eternal with God, before the start of Creation.
First let us look at the introduction to John
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Paul supports this by staing:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
No where are we told that Christ was "created," rather he was the first born or begooten of God and is the "Word" of John 1:1. He was with God in the beginning
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
He came out of God, before the beginning because he was with God in the beginning. :)
And when God say's the following in Genesis:
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Who exactly was the "us"?
It can be no other than the Word or Christ, and the following Scripture bares wittiness to this:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
I hope this helps you in your search for truth Allan,
Love in Christ,
Darren
YellowStone:
--- Quote from: M.G. on February 19, 2007, 02:47:55 AM ---Lots to think about here.
When they ate it, they died spiritually and so death passed upon all mankind.
I think Ray wrote or said somewhere that the wages of sin is death and it is physical death and not spiritual death. When someone dies his spirit returns to God who gave it and his body returns to the earth. At the resurrection that same spirit will be put into a new spiritual body. It says that our spirit returns to God who gave it so does that mean that our spirit came out of God?
--- End quote ---
Hi M.G. :)
Yes, our spirit is basically the breath of life, and when we die, it does indeed return to God.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The word used for "spirit" is ruwach and we can learn more by looking at it's meaning.
Spirit ( ruwach ) - 7307
Which has the first meaning of "breath" in Strongs dictionary
A further witness to this can be found in Genesis
Gen 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein [is] the breath of life, from under heaven; [and] every thing that [is] in the earth shall die.
I hiope this helps,
Love in Christ,
Darren
Alan:
--- Quote from: YellowStone on February 19, 2007, 11:44:48 AM ---Allan Asked:
I am not aware of any scripture that says Christ was eternal with the Father before the start of creation. If you have that, please post it.
And if you have one or two more, that would be extra special.
It's fun to search for the hidden treasure, as long as it doesn't conflict with the ultimate truth of scripture.[/i]
Hi Allan,
I can certainly provide you with more than two witnesses to the fact that Christ was eternal with God, before the start of Creation.
First let us look at the introduction to John
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Paul supports this by staing:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
No where are we told that Christ was "created," rather he was the first born or begooten of God and is the "Word" of John 1:1. He was with God in the beginning
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
He came out of God, before the beginning because he was with God in the beginning. :)
And when God say's the following in Genesis:
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Who exactly was the "us"?
It can be no other than the Word or Christ, and the following Scripture bares wittiness to this:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
I hope this helps you in your search for truth Allan,
Love in Christ,
Darren
--- End quote ---
Darren,
I see what you are trying to say, but respectfully......I disagree!
You use the scripture from John 1. "In the beginning was the Word....etc.....
This is the same beginning as Genesis 1. "In the beginning, God (Christ) created the heavens and the earth"
Jesus is The God of the Old Testament.
The Father has no beginning!
The verse in Colossians states that Christ is the firstborn of creation. I think this is pretty straightforward.
The US of Gen 1:26 is The Father and the Son. The Father created His Son, gave Him power over everything, and He proceeded
to create everything we know as creation! Everything is by the Father, and done through His Son!
Rom
1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Just as Eve was created out of Adam, so was the Son created out of the Father.
I hope this helps your understanding. Ray will tell you the same thing.
Alan
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version