> General Discussions
Jesus and the tomb
Kat:
Hi Dwight,
--- Quote ---If Abraham, Isaac and Jacob have to go through the LOF, then why did Jesus say, " Matthew 8:11 - And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven." Unless there is more than one kingdom; which I don't think there is. But then in the very next verse, Jesus says, "But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
--- End quote ---
I was thinking about this, and the scripture say some will enter the kingom before others. Here is scripture on the same subject.
Luk 13:27 But He shall say, I tell you, I do not know you; from where you are. Depart from Me, all workers of unrighteousness!
v. 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you will see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and yourselves being thrust out.
v. 29 And they will come from the east and the west, and from the north and the south, and will recline in the kingdom of God.
v. 30 And behold, there are last ones which will be first, and there are first ones which will be last.
So if you consider that some will enter the kingdom before others, as in the last (Strong: lowest) in carnality, will be first to enter, and the first (Strong: chiefest) in this present world will be last to enter the kingdom. Now I would think that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and all the prophets would be among the first to enter the kingdom out of the Lake of Fire.
So I can see the many coming to sit with them in the kingdom are those coming out of the Lake of Fire after them.
Now about verse 12, "But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness:" What came to my mind is that God referred to Israel of the Old Test., as the children of the kingdom.
Exo 19:6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words which you shall speak to the sons of Israel.
Jesus had already referred to Israel in Mat. 8:10. And as you said the children of Israel were a shadow of things to come, yet they still were a literal people. So there will be those 'children' that will cast into the Lake of Fire and have a longer stay there than Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
So does this seem to be a possible way that this can be understood?
--- Quote ---Are there other people outside of the New Jerusalem?
--- End quote ---
Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her Husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God.
Seem like New Jerusalem is the elect, as it says the bride, this is the kingdom of Christ coming to the earth.
When christ's kingdom first comes to the earth all nations/people will be outside of it, until they have been purged and given the truth and brought to salvation.
Anyway that is how these scripture seem to go together to me. It would be great if someone could give more scripture or help with this :)
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
Hello Kat
I too have been pondering this topic. Here are some more scriptures. Paul has just been explaining that the resurrection of the dead is to be raised as a spiritual body. He explains the first man Adam and the last Adam Christ.
Now we know we are in a process of becoming the image of Christ. That this process is continuing and at the resurrection some will emerge as the elect and others will still not be perfect images of Christ. Here is where it gets interesting because now Paul starts to talk about perhaps, the others who will not be admitted entry into the kingdom after resurrection.
1 Cor 15 : 50 But, I tell you this, brethren, flesh and blood cannot become partakers of eternal ( we know this to mean aion) salvation and inherit or share in the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable that which is decaying inherit or share in the imperishable the immortal.
Not all will inherit immortality and freedom or immunity from decay.
Paul continues in vs 51 Take notice! I tell you a mystery, a secret truth, an event decreed by the hidden purpose or counsel of God. We shall not all fall asleep in death, but we shall all be changed 52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the sound of the last trumpet call. For a trumpet will sound, and the DEAD IN CHRIST WILL BE RAISED IMPERISHALBE….
NOT ALL ARE DEAD IN CHRIST….
I believe that upon the return of Christ, not all will be able to meet Him in the air because some will be earth bound in carnality that yet has to be purified off them through the LOF
Is this specualtion? Are there other scriptures that witness to this? We know the scripture is not of its own interpretation! Are there other pointers to verify this possibility someone.
Kat I believe that your insight regarding what Dwight presented rings true.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
Deborah-Leigh:
Kat
This scripture also came up in the Re: The supposed "secret" rapture...
« Reply #17 on: Today at 12:00:26 PM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Medias Res
Your question caused me to look up the scripture and I found this from the Amplified Version
Prov 10 : 30 The consistently righteous shall never be removed, but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.
Perhaps this means the wicked will be cast out into the outer darkness after Jesus returns. What do you think?
One think I can observe is that maybe I am learning to dig for treasure better perhaps. In the past I did not even have a clue that scripture was spiritual!....not of its own interpretation and requiring a second witness!
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
Kat:
Hi Arcturus,
Pro 10:30 The righteous, to times age-abiding, shall remain unshaken, but, the lawless, shall not inhabit the earth. (Rotherham)
I think this maybe talking about in the kingdom, the righteous elect will rule, so there will not be allowed to be lawlessness/wicked on the earth.
v. 51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
v. 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
v. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
v. 54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
There are those that are living on earth at the return of Christ that are not in the first resurrection, but they must live on.
But those that are raised in the Great White Throne judgment now have deathlessness, I mean death and the grave are cast into the lake of fire, so they are over with.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.
Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
This is when Christ returns, there will be a new heaven and the new earth, that is His kingdom come.
v. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
v. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.
v. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."
And here after the new heaven and new earth are set up, verse 4 says there is no more death. The kingdom is on earth, and there are still people living on earth and yet there is no more death, that ends with Christ's return.
This whole chapter 21 is about the kingdom on earth... then down in verse 24 there are nations/people, both from those alive at His return and those raised? And verse 27 says there are those that cannot enter because they are still unclean, it is only for those spiritually pure/perfect as spiritual being now.
Rev 21:24 By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it,
v. 25 and its gates will never be shut by day--and there will be no night there.
v. 26 They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations.
v. 27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.
mercy, peace, and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
Kat my sister
I went to study that scripture you kindly located for me. Look what came up......
This is so interesting. :D 8) Look at that scripture you found for me Rev 9 :6. And in THOSE DAYS people will seek death and will NOT find it; and they will yearn to die, but death evades and flees from them.
Kat....THOSE DAYS are only after the FIFTH ANGEL BLOWS HIS TRUMPET! Check out the thread of this prophesy. Look at Rev 9 : 1.....Jesus is not even back yet with the blast from the seveth trumpet or are we not seeing that all the trumpets ARE CHIRST? Just like all the seven Churches are ONE?
What do you think? ......
Peace to you
Arc. :)
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version