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Preordained

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Deborah-Leigh:
Hello everyone

Perhaps if we look at the myth of free will from another angle it might become clearer.

God created evil. God created a weak heart in man. A weak heart plus evil produces sin. God doesn’t approve of sin. He wants man to become like Him and not approve of sin either but that can not happen unless man experiences sin. So God is responsible for creating the circumstances in which man can not only EXPERIENCE sin, he is made with a weak heart so he can INDULGE in sin. And God saw that His creation is good. Why? Because we can not know good unless by contrast we know evil. We can not comprehend righteous unless we know sinfulness. It is good that God has created a contrast between sin and righteousness. He starts His creation off in an experience of carnality not because that is where God has purposed it to end. No. that is the start. The end is that man will have knowledge of good and evil through experience, salvation and deliverance through purification of the LOF.

We know that God is the potter and we are His clay. So some of us are made into an Adolph Hitler and others into Mother Therese of Calcutta. It is God who decides where to put the limit of evil on us while at the same time reminding us that if we break one law we are guilty of all the law and that includes the most heinous crimes  even if we do not perform them. Why? Because we are clay and God decides who will be Hitler and who will be Therese. This too is part of the process of God to humble us to  comprehend His ways Power and Wisdom. Reverential fear of God is knowing that God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, Sovereign and responsible fully for His design that will have a remarkable outcome.  Some of us are made for wrath and others for Gods glory. In the end ALL will contain Gods glory as God will be all in all. That is remarkable and only God can do this work of salvation that is extended even to Satan! God is God. All creatures are HIS.

If I can not see the end result, or that the Will of God is to have sons and daughters in His glorious, Holy and all knowing image, then I will not see that with God, the end does justify the means. Then I will get trapped in the sink hole of dark despair and perhaps get caught in the heresy of  Hell. Eternal damnation takes away the opportunity of knowing God and His ways because it interferes with the end result of Gods plans. It interferes with  the fact that God is God and His will is that we all be saved and His will WILL be done.

The teachings and deceptions that Mystery Babylon teaches have to be unlearnt and discarded. Only few are elected to know the truth in any one generation. This is in fulfilment of the prophesy that when Christ comes there will be very little faith remaining on the earth and that too is part of the plan that will open the flood gates of mercy, judgment and knowledge will fill the earth and it will not be a small trickle of a flood…I believe it will be a cataclysmic change of  earths government to Gods authority and it will be unlike anything human kind has ever experienced….the coming of Christ…the birth from darkness to light!....the unveiling of the sons and daughters of God and the WTJ new millennium reign. Why would that be so spectacular if there is not a contrast? There will be. Jesus indicated that the world will be as in the days of Noah which means in rank evil sinful indulgence when He returns not as a one man band minority but as the King of Glory.  God ordained it and He is responsible!

I am not disappointed in Ray and neither do I see that Ray has changed his stance. I believe he has gone to the next level of comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God in the wisdom of actually a deeper revelation that we have yet to fully comprehend. We have to catch up! :D


Peace to you

Arcturus :)

Chris R:
Hi,

Interesting thread, And undoubtedly many reading this thread will be just as confused when it has ended, as it when in began.

 Perhaps if we were to create all of the world, and all those living in it, have all knowledge, and have a master plan, then perhaps we could run this creation differently?

And all would be cheery and filled with loving people, and there would be no wars, and no raping of little children, and no disease, no heartache, no dissapointment, no aging parents, no death, nothing to distinguish us from a computer program, how nice that would be right?....WRONG!

You all know how long this life is...it is short..VERY short. It is a vapor, it is like a flicker of a flame against the night air and is extinguished instantly.

In order to have the above life, that we all seem to want...GUESS WHAT! we have to experience war, hate, raping of little children, age, disease, dissapointmet, discouragement, darkness, sickness, and death

I'm sorry this tastes bitter and we dont like it, it is what it is, but there is hope for all mankind, You have all answered this question, but some just dont like the answer. God has a plan, He created man weak, riddled with sinful emotions, it is his plan that mankind sin for a season, But God did not sin by doing this, This inigma is of mans feeble brain, Our ways are not Gods ways, We dont even THINK like God, how dare we say to the Creator, WHY have you made me thus?

We are accountable, not responsible for our deeds.

Chris R

andrevan:
Thanks Arcturus, Brett and Stego. In different ways you've helped me. Arcturus, I agree with what you've said, you have a way of making things clear, and to the point. :)
I'm finding it hard to understand that I "volunteer" to sin. Volunteering to me is a choice, choice does not mean free will, I understand this. But if God has brought about the circumstances that cause me to sin, then really I'm not volunteering, as I could not have "not volunteered" to sin in the first place. :-\

So from what you said, I'm fine with how God does this, it is through this experience of good and evil that we learn righteousness. We need to experience & hate this sin in us & others, why else would we repent? So the man who rapes someone, or murders someone, was caused to do so by God, he did not volunteer, his choice was caused, he could not really have chosen otherwise. This is where I keep ending up.

Some of us are made into murderers and child molesters, or Hitlers, etc. It is a remarkable thing, when you realise this, and it has given me greater compassion for people, especially for the lost, the uncalled, and concern for the called trapped in Christendom. How much greater therefore will be the love and compassion from our Loving Father and His Son! Because of this causation, it only follows that God will have mercy on all & save all humanity. This is the only way I can understand this and I thank God that His ways are perfect and righteous and just... His mercy prevails!

Peace of God to you all. :)
Andrevan.

Thanks Chris as well. (Just read your post).

hillsbororiver:
Very well stated Chris.

Thank you,

Joe

Sorin:
Let's look at this from a another perspective, shall we?  Suppose that little { Oh I don't know.... say 12 yr old } girl got pregnant after being raped by this man. Now, we have a new life in her belly. So according to Ray Smith's stance of God not preordaining sins, such as the rape, then that child was created by chance. God had nothing to do with it.... other then creating us with the ability to procreate, but we choose when and if we'll procreate. Therefore we were all created by chance, and not preordained by God to come into this world at any particular time, nor did God preordain our gender, and therefore, didn't preordain our lives.

See, so that's why, if you believe that God is in control, and we don't have free will, and God determines when and if we'll be born, and what our genders will be, and what we'll look like etc.... then, with the example I just gave, wouldn't it be fair to say that God preordained that rape? Doesn't God create evil? Yes, He does. So wouldn't that rape qualify as an act of evil? Yes. So then, how come God can create evil, but He can't preordain a rape {which is also evil}?


Again, I'm just trying to figure it all out.... so take it easy, eh?

Peace,
Sorin

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