> General Discussions
Islam. (anyone know anything about Islam?)
Extol:
Hey Addison!
Here is an e-mail from Ray on the subject of the Qur'an. Read the passages Ray lists below and you'll know that the god of the Qur'an is not the God of the Scriptures.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,402.0.html
Ray,
>
You are certainly striving for the Truth, and putting it out there in a major way. I respect that. You are certainly cutting through much that is
> hypocritical and nonsensical and contrary to Scripture. I too have been striving similarly for a few years now, to find my way on the narrow path of God.
>
Now look at the following scripture passages, and do me the favor of checking an interpretation of them: Deut 18:19-19 and John 16: 5-15. According to my own understanding, these passages refer to the prophet muhammad. I ask you to consider reading the Qur'an, because in my own reading of it I have discovered that it is completely consistent with the bible, and also an indespensable fulfillment of it. As with christianity, which departed from the truth of its scriptures rather quickly, so did islam, and yet the Qur'an is still gold, just like the bible is. Read it and you will find that God is speaking through it.
But if you find something different, let me know please. It is not like I just want to burden you with another hard case to crack, or challenge you beyond your limits, because I think you can handle this difficult task, but believe me you will be better off in the end.
>
> May the God of Peace be with you,
>
> Ian
Dear Ian:
Are not the following quotations from your Qur'an of gold? Is this the God of the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures speaking through your Qur'an?
[al-Bayyinah 98:1-8 ]
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans
shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest
of all creatures.
[al-Hajj 22:19-22:23]
Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers.
Sclading water shall be poured upon their heads, melting
their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall
be lashed rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they
try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and
will be told: "Taste the torment of the Conflagration!"
[al-kahf 18:28-30]
For the wrongdoers We have prepared a fire which will
encompass them like the walls of a pavilion. When they
cry out for help they shall be showered with water as
hot as molten brass, which will scald their faces. Evil
shall be their drink, dismal their resting-place.
[al-Mu'min 40:67-40:73]
Do you not see how those who dispute the revelation of
God turn away from the right path ? Those who have denied
the Book and the message We sent through Our apostles
shall realize the truth hereafter: when, with chains and
shackles round their necks, they shall be dragged through
scalding water and then burnt in the fire of Hell.
[az-Zukhruf 43:74]
..The unbelievers shall endure forever the torment of Hell.
The punishment will never be lightened, and they shall be
speechless with despair. We do not wrong, themselves
I think NOT! "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the LIVING GOD, Who is the Saviour of ALL MEN , especially of those that believe...God our Saviour Who will have ALL MEN TO BER SAVED, and to come unto the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH" (I Tim. 4:10 & 2:4).
"Coming into the knowledge of THE TRUTH" will be a most painful experience for all those who fail to "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES" (Matt. 5:44). I don't believe that your religion teaches to "LOVE your enemies," does it?
Ray
Pax Vobiscum:
I neither wish to defend the Qur'an as a Holy writ, nor do I wish to defend modern, radical Islam as a profession of the Almighty Creator. However, Ray's email answer to this young lad merely quotes that the Qur'an does teach a belief of Hell as a place of fiery torment -- as did the Christians of the same time period (and many today!).
As far as the violent tone of Ray's quotes from the Qur'an, we certainly do not have to look far into the Bible to find some pretty violent passages. Who was it that lost favor with God (wouldn't that also be Jesus?) because he did not kill women and children? How about people who work on the Sabbath should be killed? Eating a shrimp is an abomination? Even Jesus (wouldn't that also be God?) commanded that to be His disciple, we must hate our parents and our own lives.
I do not mean to take this conversation away from its initial query; however, let's at least paint with the same brush.
Peace
YellowStone:
--- Quote from: Pax Vobiscum on June 01, 2007, 09:15:08 AM ---I neither wish to defend the Qur'an as a Holy writ, nor do I wish to defend modern, radical Islam as a profession of the Almighty Creator. However, Ray's email answer to this young lad merely quotes that the Qur'an does teach a belief of Hell as a place of fiery torment -- as did the Christians of the same time period (and many today!).
As far as the violent tone of Ray's quotes from the Qur'an, we certainly do not have to look far into the Bible to find some pretty violent passages. Who was it that lost favor with God (wouldn't that also be Jesus?) because he did not kill women and children? How about people who work on the Sabbath should be killed? Eating a shrimp is an abomination? Even Jesus (wouldn't that also be God?) commanded that to be His disciple, we must hate our parents and our own lives.
I do not mean to take this conversation away from its initial query; however, let's at least paint with the same brush.
Peace
--- End quote ---
Pax,
I have no idea where you are headed with this ::)
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
So Christ said we must hate our parents?
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
So what did Christ REALLY say?
Luk 14:26 If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Surely you do not need me to explain this, but what Christ said is that if any man comes to me with his mind and heart on anything other than ME, then he his wasting his and my time, both. (words are mine)
Hate in this instance, does not mean HATE, it means putting love for self and loved ones ahead of Christ. I understand totally what Christ meant, because I surely did not know love until I began searching for it with my heart instead of my eyes, ears and mind.
I hope this helps.
Darren
Extol:
--- Quote from: Pax Vobiscum on June 01, 2007, 09:15:08 AM --- However, Ray's email answer to this young lad merely quotes that the Qur'an does teach a belief of Hell as a place of fiery torment -- as did the Christians of the same time period (and many today!).
--- End quote ---
Yes, and if you believe the Scriptures, this is all you should need to know that the Qur'an is NOT true. :)
mari_et_pere:
--- Quote ---I do not mean to take this conversation away from its initial query; however, let's at least paint with the same brush.
--- End quote ---
Can one paint a house and a model car with the same brush?
Matt
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