> General Discussions
meaning of lost?
acomplishedartis:
acturus; ''I understand that we are never lost to GOD because HE is ALL KNOWING and OMNIPRESENT. From our view point we can fall prey to becoming lost, back slidden, deceived and in error when we lean on our own understanding and worse fall into the error of thinking we have control or are in control! Cheesy
For me, every discussion we can have is centred on Free Will and Absolute v/s Relative. To me all roads lead to these conclusions (as brought out in Rays teachings) and the acceptance or rejection of them. Everything around that is frills skirting issues that embroider other ideas that evade the stark basic Truth that does not lie, or deceive or err.''
Yes, i belive it too; that's where every discuccion will lide us: absolute v/s relative, free will or not free (cause and effect or effect without a cause).
for one side we can be all lost in our perceptions(one's more than others), for the other god knows exactly where we are and if we are going to stand firm or not until our death, and if it will be posible for us to perceive that he is walking with us or not (like darren said).
This is one of the things i like from here, if there is absolutes (that we can prove) , we will not go random on never ending issues. And it is posible to be agree on one mind with people we just met for the first time.
thanks for reply, i appreciated it.
DuluthGA:
Hi Moises! Good post, thanks!
When you said:
--- Quote ---for my perception i also think being lost has to do with death as it was sugested, because we are all slowly dying, Day by day , hour by hour we are getting closer to our graves from Every second since we born.
--- End quote ---
It reminded of (from Ray):
In the Hebrew as translated in the CLV, "... for in the day that you eat of it, dying you shall die.” [Gen 2: 17b] You will begin to die, you will be mortal and just die. You will be mortal and come to old age and die.
Just thought I'd give this matching scripture reference. :)
Further from Ray:
Regarding: Rom. 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners..."
They were made sinners by VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT THEY RECEIVED ADAM'S MORTALITY [DEATH] NOT HIS SIN. We sin because we are mortal [dying]. We have NO SPIRITUAL STRENGTH to combat our carnal, sinning, DYING, FLESH. Hence all sin because THEY ARE MORTAL. Adam sinned because HE WAS MORTAL. "It is appointed unto ALL men once to die." [Heb 9: 27]
Life is actually and simply a process of dying. :)
Janice
YellowStone:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on September 22, 2007, 06:47:31 AM ---You can take a string of scriptures to say we were lost once in darkness and now see the light but we are not there yet and until we are home in Christ we are vulnerable to being lost again or getting lost. Like Judas who walked with Christ. Judas got lost in his dispair, regret and solitary anguish. Poor guy. Think how he will feel when our Lord wakes him up and he see's Him as he desired to have Him ruling while in carnal reality! Of course he will have to repent of trying to take control to get his own way and vision of Jesus ruling the Roman Empire. When Christ returns He will be ruling much more than that! 8)...Just my thoughts.... :)
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
--- End quote ---
Hi Arcturus, you are of course correct when you say that we are not there yet. However, a young child may wander for days and many miles from home, hoplessly lost. Yet, once the child is found, she is found regardless of how far away from home the child may be. Likewise, I will never state that I will not find myself in places where I might not want to be, but to your point exactly, I will be there for a reson, and God will be with me. As David walked though his valleys and shadows of death, so must we all. I will never say "Fine God, I needed you once, but not anymore" I can say this honestly, beccause I do not believe that I ever will, but if I do, it will be because God so chooses. I am not there where i want to be, but I am not lost any more either.
Thanks, :)
Darren
Deborah-Leigh:
Let me try to understand this Darren.
I can not find a Scriptural parallel to your allegory about a child being lost.
Of course we know about the prodigal son who was considered as DEAD by his Father until such time as he returned home. Are we also DEAD to the Father once we leave our first love?
Only when the prodigal son reached home and humbled himself before his Father was his return celebrated and he was restored to the House of his Father. The inheritance he had squandered was not restored to him. To reimburse him his losses would mean taking from Peter to pay Paul or reducing the inheritance of the brother who did not leave home. The prodigal had forced his inheritance to be paid against the will of his Father. He received his inheritance before his Father died which was the same as saying to the Father, you are dead for me. Give me my inheritance! The Prodigal had his reward after he left the will of his Father to go and live in promiscuity. Like those who pray on street corners in Babylon. They have their reward.
Concerning the Prodigal son, he only came to his sense's after his money ran out and he landed in the gutter pig pen conditions of mind body and soul. Only then did he decide to return to more amenable conditions at his Father house. In this respect he had learnt his bitter lesson through experience.
Having left home could perhaps be like us when we leave our first love. Having returned to move out of the pig pen to work our way home again does not mean we have yet met with our Father and repented and been restored to favor. We are still dead in our sins until made alive in Christ. Once we receive the Spirit of Christ we may begin our homeward journey. Is this perhaps what you mean? Do you mean you have received the Spirit of Christ and for this you believe you are on your way home no matter where you path leads?
I see our homeward journey arising from two possibilities. For me it may mean we go home only because we are still carnal and desire the comforts of less pain from recognising we have no resources of our own. I see many Babylonian leaders in this role. They make merchandise of the Word of God because it suits them, it appeases their consciences and deludes them into false cul-de-sacs of security and self approval and willful blindness. Or, we receive the Holy Spirit and are conceived and through repentance we grow in Spirit and in Truth towards home and into the image of Christ.
We know that our Lord never leaves or forsakes us even when we keep asking Him why as tears burn our eyes and the pain of broken dreams impale us. Yet He is with us writing our circumstances and making us into vessels for His honour or vessels of dishonour. Finding out which one we are being made into is where I believe the fear and trembling is appropriate. ;D :)
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
Deborah-Leigh:
Janice
Your post and observations highlight and underscore for me that we do not know if we are chosen while in this life. I think we may say with certainty that we are called yet many are called so there is no distinction in this. Not for me anyway.
We may hope, pray and carry our cross to that end of winning the prize but we do not have the certainty of our election until conclusion in judgment either on the House of God now through judgment in our daily lives or LOF once we have died.
You post emphasised for me that either way, we should not be so sure we are chosen but we can be sure we are called to that higher calling. :)
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
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