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meaning of lost?
YellowStone:
Hi Arcturus :)
I will only quote your the following portion of your ensightful comment.
--- Quote ---Having left home could perhaps be like us when we leave our first love. Having returned to move out of the pig pen to work our way home again does not mean we have yet met with our Father and repented and been restored to favor. We are still dead in our sins until made alive in Christ. Once we receive the Spirit of Christ we may begin our homeward journey. Is this perhaps what you mean? Do you mean you have received the Spirit of Christ and for this you believe you are on your way home no matter where you path leads?
--- End quote ---
By no means am I saying that I have it all, infact perhaps the Spirit that I do have is as nothing compared to some, but it does not feel as nothing. As many will attest to here (I hope) the Spirit does change lives. It does not mean that life gets easier, or we remain in perfect health or find the perfect job (looking through carnal eyes) But be this as it may, life does get easier, (I am not driving, all I need to do is make some sense of where God is taking me, through prayer and spiritual discernemnt) Health must improve, even if only because it becomes less stressful (for who needs to worry about food, clothes or a place to sleep, will not God provide them) Lastly, perhaps the job that one is in is perfect, when viewed through spiritual eyes and it is realized that God has one there for a reason. Of course, one might see the complete opposite when given the eyes to see. :)
But my whole point is this, being found has nothing to do with being returned to favour or recieving what is yours. Rather, I am taking a very simplistic approach of being no longer lost. Of course I never was lost to God, but it wasn't until his Spirit openned my eyes and heart to him, that I was wandering aimlessly for naught. All I needed and need always is take his hand and follow, trusting that He will be with me always, no matter where He leads me in this life. I amd not LOST! :) :)
Thanks Arcturus for allowing me to explain further :)
In the Love of Christ,
Darren
Kat:
Hi Arcturus,
Good observation on the prodigal son, as you stated; Once we receive the Spirit of Christ we may begin our homeward journey. we receive the Holy Spirit and are conceived and through repentance we grow in Spirit and in Truth towards home and into the image of Christ. That does seem like what the elect are experiencing now, the juorney home.
But I also agree with what you said in that we can't be sure; Yet He is with us writing our circumstances and making us into vessels for His honour or vessels of dishonour. Finding out which one we are being made into is where I believe the fear and trembling is appropriate.
Here is an excerpt from the lake of fire article no. 4 about the prodigalson;
http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html --------------------------------------
So here then is the order of things. The Prodigal Son SINNED, he was LOST, he spiritually DIED, and then? And then he was JUDGED! Where and when was he judged? In the hog pens of a far alien country, that’s where. God had to bring him out of this alien county (Mystery Babylon the Great) with all its "riotous living" (Luke 15:13). And so it was that God JUDGED this Prodigal with the beasts and swine of Babylon until he "came to himself."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
So we are 'lost' as long as we are in the pig pens - alien country - Babylon. As the prodigal son was judged (1Pe 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God) and 'came to himself,' I think this is when God begot him with the Holy Spirit and he started his journey home. The prodigal son was a type and shadow of what we must be :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
Thank you for adding Kat.
Ray writes : And so it was that God JUDGED this Prodigal with the beasts and swine of Babylon until he "came to himself."......
What does Ray mean by UNTIL? Does this mean judgment stopped once the Prodigal came to his senses and then judgment was discontinued to make for the prodigal to take up the batton and judge himself from then on.......?
As the scriptures say 1 Cor 11:31 For if we searchingly examined ourselves detecting our shortcomings and recognizing our own condition, we should not be judged and penalty decreed by the divine judgment. 32 But when we fall short and are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined and chastened, so that we may not finally be condemned with the world.
Personally I do not see how it is possible to be in the clear so to speak, regarding election in this life. Also I do not perceive that Ray would teach that judgment discontinues while anyone is still in their carnal flesh. We can know we are called but chosen?...not even Paul took that for granted.
Rightly or wrongly, I believe that the chosen will be revealed only when Christ returns because if we knew that, then we might fail to nurture our hope in Him and cease to grow, desire and pray to be found faithful to our calling.
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
javajoe:
--- Quote from: Arcturus on September 23, 2007, 05:48:40 AM ---Janice
Your post and observations highlight and underscore for me that we do not know if we are chosen while in this life. I think we may say with certainty that we are called yet many are called so there is no distinction in this. Not for me anyway.
We may hope, pray and carry our cross to that end of winning the prize but we do not have the certainty of our election until conclusion in judgment either on the House of God now through judgment in our daily lives or LOF once we have died.
You post emphasised for me that either way, we should not be so sure we are chosen but we can be sure we are called to that higher calling. :)
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
--- End quote ---
Arcturus,
Good post
yet I think we can be sure, I haven't arrived there yet. Paul apparently did,
He writes in 2 Timothy, Chapter 4:
"For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time has come for my departure. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing"[/color]
It also says in Scripture:
2 Peter 1:10
Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall,
Seems we can reach a point of assurance, may be it is a time near the end, as it was for Paul.
God Bless,
JavaJoe
Deborah-Leigh:
Thank you javajoe
Yes, chosen is unto death and Paul had a magnificent track record and elected to be executed in Rome.
After Paul was equipped/caused to follow Christ to Paul's own death, then he/Paul could rest assured of his election. He had come to the end of his journey and knew because the Spirit warned him that if he journey to Rome death would be waiting for him. All through Paul's letters prior to this, he does caution to his flock. In fact he warned against being overly confident. Even Jesus said to his Disciples to take joy not in the fact that spirits were subject to them but that their names were recorded in Heaven.
Paul was Chosen and his life was a testimony to this fact.
If I am able to walk into the fire of execution for the cause of Christ because of Christ equipping me, then I too can be sure. I speak for myself. I am not there. Perhaps Paul also was not there when he begged God to take away the thorn in his side. He got there I believe at the end of his life when finally he could lay down his life in a option to go to Rome and be killed.
This finally was the victory I see in Paul's life. He was Gods own choice for the work HE did into which Paul was blessed to walk and imitate.
My hope and search is for that Kingdom too and to be equipped and not fail to stand as Paul was made not to fail to lay down his life too. It is not a trivial finale!
Peace be to you
Arcturus :)
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