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Vengance is mine saith the Lord?

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Gregor:
Greetings Arcturus,

I actually modified my post slightly, but in any case, I think that man must first see the reality of death, and our need for God before we can truly learn to love and obey God. This is perhaps why it is so hard for the rich to enter the kingdom of God, they "think" they have no need. In my case, I truly had to hit "rock bottem" in life, before I was willing to look upward for help. When there was no further for me to fall, other than death, I was able to recognize my total need for God. Now, as I'm growing, I realize that my focus has changed.

Heb.6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God...

This is how God intends to bring us to his light, by the very fact that he created evil and exposed the sin. Just like in Gen.1, there was first darkness over the face of the deep, before God said, "let there be light" and saw that it was good. The repentance from "dead works" must first be in our foundation before we can move on. Ultimately, it is the spirit who draws us, by whatever means necessary, and may differ from one person to another. So I'll leave it at that and agree with you when you said, "I do not believe there is any major differences between what we have been brought to understand by the Spirit. We can fine tune our WORDS and correct our perceptions to make for purer understanding. I believe this is where the benifit of fellowship is present and constructive." I look forward to that "purer" understanding to come.
All the best in Christ,
G.

Gregor:
Greetings Sonofone,
I think in your last post, you did hit the nail on the head: "You need to have the balance you can't have one without the other." I agree. NKJV Gen.1:5 "God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. *So the evening and the morning were the first day." In the center margin of my bible there is a footnote stating that the Literal translation reads like this: *And evening was, and morning was, a day, one. This speaks to me that both are in balance - one. I'm sorry if I'm distracting from your questions, but maybe the answer to the Vengence is mine saith the lord?? question is related to how we perceive our relationship with anger. I will read up some more on "vengence" but believe that when God says vengence he's directing it at the sin, not the sinner. Just as it says in Eph 6:10 "to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made know by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places."  Man tends to look at the surface, blame the person, rather than righteous judgement God shows at directing his vengence at the principalities/powers behind our actions. This is why the LOF will destroy the sin, not the sinner. God loves us, but hates the sin. And what is sin, but Rom14:23 "But he who doubts (Adam/us) is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin." Hope this helps.
G.

sonofone:
I think it becomes difficult to separate the sin from the sinner even dicier than splitting hairs. If I sin I will be judged I am not going to get to sit back and watch my sin get judged by the fire I will be judged in and by the fire.

Gregor:

--- Quote from: sonofone on September 26, 2007, 04:44:52 PM ---I think it becomes difficult to separate the sin from the sinner even dicier than splitting hairs. If I sin I will be judged I am not going to get to sit back and watch my sin get judged by the fire I will be judged in and by the fire.

--- End quote ---

yes, you're right. This is why only God can do the judging, not man. But God disciplines (chastises) those he loves, and as Ray explains, those who aren't chastised would be considered ******** (without a father).

I looked up the Greek word for vengence. It is made up of different root words, but the primary root word meaning is "to show" Other meanings include punishment/retribution etc. but ultimately God will vindicate himself, show us that his word is true. Man volunteers to sin. See the last couple posts in "Circumcision - ouch!" thread. Kat put an email in there from Ray, which I think supports what I'm saying. I encourage you to keep seeking, knocking, asking, as the answers will come. Really ask God, "what are you trying to show me?" When he sheds his light on your understanding, you will know it!
All the best,
G.

hillsbororiver:

--- Quote from: sonofone on September 26, 2007, 03:15:06 PM ---
It is of utmost importance to realise that Adam chose freely to sin whether God intended this or not he chose to sin and he could have chose differently.The choice was his. Think about it the serpent tempted him just as he did Jesus Neither Adam or Jesus was deceived by the serpent.
 

--- End quote ---

Hi sonophone,

Where is it written that the serpent tempted Adam?

This is new to me.

His Peace to you,

Joe

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