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Jesus Nature?
sonofone:
New wrinkle,same question. If a person who has a drug problem is more likely to fall to the temptation of using drugs,and conversely a person who has not been predisposed would not.What if I was born without this predisposition to sin? Would it not give me at the very least a fighting chance to not sin? We already know what it is like to be predisposed to sin and how it makes it impossible not to sin as a result of this. To be clear we are not talking about being perfect,just being predisposed to sin.This seems to be the case for Jesus and quite possibly Adam depending on how you look at it.Any thoughts?
Kat:
Hi sonofone,
In reading Ray's article on 'Saved By Grace Thru Faith' I come to see that it is through God's grace (divine influence on the heart) that gives anybody the means to NOT sin, and that includes Jesus Christ. I do not believe Adam had divine influence on his heart.
The is a part of the article 'Saved By Grace Thru Faith'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5417.0.html ------
Never once in the Old Testament is anybody ever talked about being spiritually saved or received salvation by grace. It’s just not there. I mean even King David, if God had divine influence on his heart, the way it’s suppose to be, why would he go to his death bed squeaking out his last words to his son, Solomon. Telling him how he wants him to kill all his enemies and make it bloody. Does that sound like divine influence upon your heart, from God? It doesn’t sound like that to me.
That’s what grace is, divine - divinity - God - Godly influence on your heart. But now we’ve taken grace out of the realm of a noun, into a verb, it’s doing something you see. Of course I said that a long time ago.
Jesus didn’t need grace for any pardon of anything. But did He need the influence of God, divine influence on His heart? Absolutely. That’s why He could live the way He did, accomplish what He did, never give in to wrong motives and temptations and all that. He had this divine influence of God on His heart ALL THE TIME.
So then we read Paul says, “But by the grace of God I am what I am: and His grace (divine influence upon the heart) which was bestowed upon me was not found vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I….” (1 Cor 15:10)
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There are works, they’re just not ours. But we are of His workmanship. Workmanship has the word ‘work.’ The Concordant translates it ‘achievement.’ When you want to achieve something it takes work. Who’s doing the work here? God is doing the work. What is that work? Divine influence upon the heart and then you do things.
Eph 2:10 “… created in Christ Jesus UNTO GOOD WORKS, which God has afore ordained that we should walk in them.”
So there are works.
Rom 8:28 “And we know that God WORKS all (things), together for the good…” Verse 29 “….predestined us to be conformed into the image of His Son.”
That is the whole thing. What is the purpose of works? To be conformed into the image of His Son. What image is that? The image of God. So what is it that God is creating humanity in? His image. Was it completed? No, it was not good, it was not so. But it will be one day. One day it will be so and it will be good. God is changing the carnal physical human mind into His spiritual divine mind.
James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can faith save him?
He ask the rhetorical question, “can faith save us?” Of course the answer is no. That’s interesting, you know faith is talked a lot about, as we are justified by faith, especially in Paul’s writing, Rom 3:30, Gal 3:8. We are justified by faith, but nowhere does it say in the scripture that we are saved by faith, nowhere.
We are saved by grace. It’s free, gratuitous gift from God, but it does something. It teaches - it chastens - it educates - it is divine influence upon the seat of our emotions - thinking - plans - purpose - goals - aspirations and everything else. It divinely influences that heart, you can’t help it, it does it.
This just smacks free will right in the teeth. According to true free will, God can’t make you do anything, you have to choose it on your own. How can you choose to do good unless God divinely influences your heart? You see, you can’t. But the second you say He does, you’ve taken away man’s free will.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
Gregor:
Greetings sonofone,
Your drug analogy is worded ambiguously; you need to clarify "predisposed". Rom 3:19 "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."
Sorry, but as long as you have a belly-button, you will always be predisposed to sin. It is God's will. You do have a fighting chance at resisting sin if you: Rom.12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
All the best,
G.
sonofone:
The point I am trying to raise is this.All of us are sinners,yet each of us miss the mark or sin in different areas, Some here may struggle with drugs,or alcohol,my struggle could be pride,or lying.When I say pre-disposed I am speaking of mans carnal nature that we are all born with.Born in sin born to sin. If we could suppose,which we have that this was not the nature which Jesus came in,does that put Jesus the man in at the very least a more favorable state than us? Lastly if this supposition is true,if Adam was created in this same state the question is the same.
Gregor:
This is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth to you. Words can be ambiguous, and that too is the divine purpose of God (See Gen.11:1-9). Yes, Jesus was in a more favorable position than all of us, in that he was the only begotten son of God. But do you consider having that great responsibility and weight on your shoulders to be called the "Saviour of the world" and to face the way in which it would be accomplished (death on the cross, shame, and sheding of His own innocent blood) favorable? Adam (created of dust, not begotten) had the spirit of life imparted to him with the intended will of God that he would sin. Does that sound favorable? However Jesus, He, and only He, is worthy to to be called Lord and Savior, the author and finisher of our faith, revealing the grace of God, and reconcilling man to Him. None of us could ever deserve the praise or honour that Jesus does. That is why God chose Him. What carnal man fails to do by works, God himself will do for us (by faith), and literally for us. That God would want to create (a work in progress) us in his image is mindboggling. The entirety of the bible deals with this and takes a lifetime plus to fully grasp. Supposition and chasing wisdom and knowledge can be like grasping for the wind. Rather, pray and seek God, that the Spirit of God may alight upon you. May peace and grace be yours in Christ.
G.
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