> General Discussions
Is this judgeing?
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Kat on October 06, 2007, 12:55:56 AM ---
Hi Alex,
I see you are still struggling with this issue. I found a couple of emails, to see what Ray says on such matters. Hope this will be of help :)
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3703.0.html -----
Ray,
> I saw this posting on the internet and I was wondering what you thought
> of it: (Article refuting universal salvation)
> Bill
Dear Bill:
If you don't understand the mind of a Christian you will never understand why people like me do not usually debate them. Let's say that they bring up a point (about anything) and you have Scripture that speaks directly to this point. Can you quote that Scripture to a Christian to make your point? NO, no you can't. Why is that? Because the second you quote it (according to them) you TOOK IT OUT OF CONTEXT. And to them, no Scripture is true "out of context." "God is love" (I John 4:8), but ONLY IN THE CONTEXT OF I John 4:8. You cannot just quote a Scripture and believe that it is a statement of fact or statement of eternal truth. They won't hear of it. But don't they quote Scripture to support their views. Yes, of course they do, but they use them IN CONTEXT. Who determines whether their use is in context and your use is not in context? Why THEY DO, of course, and that is because they understand hermeneutics and you don't. See the difference? I don't either, but that's just the way it is. If you can corner a snake in a briar patch, then you can debate a Christian with the Scriptures.
God be with you,
Ray
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2633.0.html -------
We see that Jesus several times calls the pharisees hypocrites, blind fools, blind guides...etc. And in Matthew 5:21-23. Jesus commands us not to otherwise will be in danger of the fire of hell. Isn't this contradicting to His teachings?.
I know you receive tons of e-mails everyday, but I would appreciate it if you give me couple minutes of your time and answer my question.
May God Bless You,
Tony
Dear Tony:
We must learn to read more carefully. Every word is important. Here is what Jesus said: "But I say unto That whosoever is angry with HIS BROTHER....and whosoever shall say to HIS BROTHER, Raca...." (Matt. 5:22).
These lying, two-faced, blaspheming hypocrites were not Jesus' "brothers." Here are those who are Christ's "BROTHERS": "For whosoever shall DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER which is in heaven, the same IS MY BROTHER...." (Matt. 12:50). Contrarywise, "whosoever shall NOT do the will of My father is NOT my brother..." This is because "Ye [same scribes and Pharisees] are of YOUR FATHER [not Christ's FAther, but YOUR father] THE DEVIL" (John 8:44).
God be with you,
Ray
--- End quote ---
Thank you so much kat! That is exactly what i was feeling, these people are NOT my brothers in sister, no one that teaches what they do is.
With love in Christ,
Alex
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: insanezenmistress on October 06, 2007, 08:12:35 AM ---
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on October 05, 2007, 12:55:46 PM ---
--- Quote from: insanezenmistress on October 04, 2007, 01:12:21 PM --- ::)
YES it is judging. You are treating others as you may be treated. ( mathew, for with what judgment you render, it will be rendered against you)
No argument is more convincing of the wisdom and power of the spirit behind your new leanrings and understandings. For if you can only live these when you carry about the facts in your mind, you will tire quickly and end in confusion.
IZM
--- End quote ---
IZM,
My big problem is, can i really say these people are my BROTHERS and SISTERS in Christ, when they preach a Christ who will eternal torture most of humanity in a terrorist hell hole of fire?..............Will you go off and defend against the Buddhist who DONT preach torture or even a Christ who Died for them? How is this not an act of pride and seeking to be correct? You are useing argument by outrage. A tactic.[/I]
That is a question, that i would love to have answered, because i don't know.
I certainly don't feel like they are, they preach ANOTHER Christ, that the scriptures know not...... WHo is my brother?
Is my brother only he who knows as i do?
Is my brother ANY of those who WILL KNOW as God does?
Who was the Good Samaritian's brother?
Clearly the beat up jewish man preached a Different gospel then him, they did not argue first then consider themselves brothers, before the Man took him to the inn. They did not even feel like brothers.[/I]
So in this thought, am i still judgeing in what i did?
God bless,
Alex
P.S. I woudl certainly NEVER treat a BROTHER or SISTER in Christ, with the same zeal that i did these people or ever tell them they 'despise the Word of God,' because this i know would not be true.
--- End quote ---
I am sorry about the fact that i am posting in disagreement with you. But from your own defence about yourself, you seem to be conflicted, you ask because you already know your verdict. I am not intending to go to war with you.
Only see that you already are not sure about the actions. I can see the other person when right on the defencive, and without seeing your end of the conversation i cannot see where you where. But i can see you defence now.
You have alluded to "another gospel" i wanted to toss two verses your way to compare. Acts 20:24 , and Mark 4:23 .......
Who is our brother? Before Jesus chose me, i dispised the word. and he was my brother. May we be able to apply the same gentleness with those who (according to our gospel) will one day BE our brothers, in the knowledge of the Lord.
Who knows the Lord?
Those to whom the Lord reveals himself.
Did the Lord reveal himself to you so that you may have rightness and reproove your brother, or so that the Lord might reveal himself to your brother through your love? Perhaps both.
WELL I DONT KNOW..........personally i would rather be carefull in how i judge, let it be with mercy and undersanding because i crave that the Lord applyies mercy and undertanding to my sinnfull behind.
Much love.........may we have dissagreed in peace.....and may you be blessed in peace.
Justine[/I]
--- End quote ---
Well i don't remember saying they preach another gospel and i also don't think i'm on the 'defense' because i didn't feel 'attacked' in the first place.
I'm simply looking for insight from my brothers and sisters in Christ.
I don't feel what i did was judgeing but i was looking for clarification so i may learn and grow.
I guess i don't understand what your saying to me, words like 'verdict' and those things, are alittle to big for me.
God bless,
Alex
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: GODSown1 on October 06, 2007, 02:22:57 AM ---Alex bo! this is dedicated to you!!! Take a look at this......click on the link below
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=492fed4d19999a813009
My wife did this for me. lol. She was reading your thread and reckon to put this video clip from GOD tube on here for you and everyone to see.
REALLY HITS THE SPOT!!! and beleive this is how you feel!!!!!
muchLOVE!! Pera
P.s You are an example we all should follow, jus like in this clip....everyone must of noticed by now....lol....that this is not me typing this post. hahaha
--- End quote ---
Haha, thanks pera, tell your wife, thank you as well! Great video brother. I really enjoyed it. Yea i figured that wasn't you typing :P
To arcturus:
Thank you for this insights, i really hope ray writes a whole article on judgeing and who is our brother and sister in Christ, because i still need more clarification on all this. I do feel that those who preach a Christ who will eternaly torture His creation forever, is not my brother or sister, but then again from what rocky posted, it seems like things aren't so black and white. Haha, but i guess thats the way our Father loves do things, and i don't mind searching them out!
God bless you both and all!
Alex
Gregor:
Greetings Alex,
These people may not be your "brothers" but we are still warned to be careful in how/what we say to them:
Jude
[8] Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
[9] Yet Michael the archangel, when contending (arguing) with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
[20] But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
[21] Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
[22] And of some have compassion, making a difference:
[23] And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
I pray that God will give you the wisdom to speak/not speak the "right" words or what actions to take/not take when dealing with the "others" mentioned in vs.23.
Keep the faith.
G.
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Gregor on October 06, 2007, 01:06:10 PM ---Greetings Alex,
These people may not be your "brothers" but we are still warned to be careful in how/what we say to them:
Jude
[8] Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
[9] Yet Michael the archangel, when contending (arguing) with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
[20] But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
[21] Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
[22] And of some have compassion, making a difference:
[23] And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
I pray that God will give you the wisdom to speak/not speak the "right" words or what actions to take/not take when dealing with the "others" mentioned in vs.23.
Keep the faith.
G.
--- End quote ---
Greg brother! Thank you! That is and was the best thing you could say! Prayer for such wisdom, is all i could ask for =]
Thank you, and great scripture, i luved it.
God bless,
Alex
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