> General Discussions
"Types"
indianabob:
Hi Gregor,
I tend to agree with the quote from your message on types as follows:
The reality is, that if we did love in its purest form, we would never get married, and we would be as it is in heaven, neither married, nor given in marriage, but one with God (Imitating Christ). Our prime reason for marriage is because of the war raging in our members and our lack of self-control (fruit of the spirit). This too is a part of the plan.
Rom.8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
HOWEVER: How does this fit in with the need to Adam and Eve to generate children?
Yes, it is part of God's plan, but then is lust the only motivator for men? Do you include the desire for children as a lustful emotion in men and in women?
Thanks for your comments. indianabob
YellowStone:
--- Quote from: Gregor on October 04, 2007, 06:24:07 PM ---Absolutely Alex, that is why even we (believers, walking in the spirit) are not yet perfect, but only a shadow of what we too will become. Adam may have known love in part, as do we, but it was his lust (idolatry of the heart, self seeking) that would make him choose his wife over the commandment of God (again, the epitomy of carnal thinking, of which we're all guilty
Eph.4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
The reality is, that if we did love in its purest form, we would never get married, and we would be as it is in heaven, neither married, nor given in marriage, but one with God (Imitating Christ). Our prime reason for marriage is because of the war raging in our members and our lack of self-control (fruit of the spirit). This too is a part of the plan.
Rom.8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
--- End quote ---
Hi Gregor,
I have been away for far to long. :)
I bolded your words because as they are worded, it would seem you believe that God had no say in it at all. Really? :) I am thinking that Adam had very little choice in the matter. By no means am I suggesting that God "forced" Adam to lust over Eve; rather, I am simply suggesting that Adam was not well enough equipped Spiritually to do anything but what he did.
This of course puts the entire onus back on us whom by our own admission, live by the Spirit:
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Who then has caused the greater wrong? Adam, who was blind to the Spirit, or those who sin still, even though the have Spiritual eyes enough to see? Of course this is a rhetorical question. :)
Please know that I am posting the following Scripture in reference to me, myself and I alone.
Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
The simple fact that each one of us has only been given what God wants us to have. Some more than others, and some less.
Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
How then we dare even look upon the deeds of another?
You then state and I quote: "Our prime reason for marriage is because of the war raging in our members and our lack of self-control (fruit of the spirit). "
I think perhaps you have forgotten the instruction given to both Adam and Eve by God himself. ;)
Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Ah, but were they married? I will let the Scriptures answer this.
Matt 19:4 “Haven't you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’
Matt 19:5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’ ?
Matt 19:6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”
Yes, God made Eve out of Adam, they were indeed one flesh. They were blessed and told to be: "fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth"
This is in stark contrast to your reasoning behind marriage. :)
Once again, I will ask a similar question as before. If God has planned one to marry, who will stand up to him and say: 'NO!!'
I hope I have not offended anyone.
Love in Christ our redeemer,
Darren
Gregor:
--- Quote from: indianabob on October 08, 2007, 07:00:42 AM ---Hi Gregor,
I tend to agree with the quote from your message on types as follows:
The reality is, that if we did love in its purest form, we would never get married, and we would be as it is in heaven, neither married, nor given in marriage, but one with God (Imitating Christ). Our prime reason for marriage is because of the war raging in our members and our lack of self-control (fruit of the spirit). This too is a part of the plan.
Rom.8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
HOWEVER: How does this fit in with the need to Adam and Eve to generate children?
Yes, it is part of God's plan, but then is lust the only motivator for men? Do you include the desire for children as a lustful emotion in men and in women?
Thanks for your comments. indianabob
--- End quote ---
Greetings,
Hopefully you've read Rays teachings on how it's a myth that Adam and Eve were created perfectly in God's image but then "fell" after eating the forbidden fruit?? Adding to that, here's what I see:
We know from Gen.2:4 that Gen.1:28 is not chronologically factual, but is the "birthing/creating" or history of God's plan, and that it includes blessing man and populating the earth. We also know from Gen. 2:5 that the "fall" of man is part of Gods plan, because Gen.3:23 says God sent him (Adam) out of the garden to "till the ground." thereby fulfilling the need mentioned in Gen.2:5. Now, back to Gen.1:28, we know that the only way God could truly "bless" us (in our carnal nature) would be to grace us with His son to complete the process of creating us in His image (spiritual nature). We see that God tells the serpent in Gen.3:15 that Christ is coming and then in vs.16 tells the woman that "I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;..." It's all part of the plan from the beginning. If the "brood of vipers" (children of the serpent) and the unbelievers never crucified Christ, then we could never be "saved" and never be completed in the image of God. God's plan will be completed. One last thing, Jesus says (Mt.19:11,12) "All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it.
Gregor:
Greetings Darren,
I can see how you concluded what you did by my words (and lack thereof). Please read my above post for some clarification. His ways are not our ways. First the physical, then the spiritual - I think lust is a shadow of love. I think procreation is a shadow of God producing the children of God (born of the spirit). I believe it is all part of God's plan. Who are we, what is sin, what power could possibly thwart the plan of God? None.
Peace
G.
YellowStone:
Hi Gregor,
I am glad that I caused no offense. :)
You responded with: I believe it is all part of God's plan. Who are we, what is sin, what power could possibly thwart the plan of God? None.
And I agree 100%!!!!! NONE!! :)
Love in Christ,
Darren
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