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God=Love
hillsbororiver:
Amen MG!
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world and not after Christ.
Peace,
Joe
Little Joe:
Luke 23:41 "And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." 42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" 43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."
The thief on the cross had no bible study, no schooling, he probably didn't know God's word that well, if at all. He was never baptized, maybe not circumcised, he was no theologian, nor did he invite Jesus Christ into his heart for forgiveness, in fact he led a life of a thief and a criminal. Did this man understand ALL of God's plan for the world? How much information did he have, (DID HE NEED) to be accepted? Yet with little information and one simple request, he was told by Jesus Christ himself, that he would experience Paradise.
Dante,
I believe the implication here is that he did put His faith in Christ. He undertstood who Jesus was, referencing His Kingdom, His heart was in a repentant attitude, "we are suffering justly for our deeds", and his saying the words "remember me", implied that He knew Jesus had the power to save him. Indeed, I believe we can say he was the first convert of the new covenant.
This reminded me of a book I read years ago about a woman named Mimosa, who lived in a small village in India. A missionary came to her village and spoke maybe 10 minutes with her about a God of forgiveness who loved her. With those few words, she gladly accepted Christ. She was the only convert in her pagan village, and for the next 20 years or so she faced persecution from others in her village, but was taught amazing biblical principals directly from God's spirit. She had no bible, no other person to teach her. When western culture finally caught up with her village and Christianity was brought to her village in a more formal way, she was able to share her story. All those years, she never wavered - all based upon a ten minute encounter with a missionary. Christ is the Living Word of God, and he is able to teach and sanctify regardless of the circumstances.
Dante:
I totally agree with you Little Joe.
And it is exactly as you say, he knew certain LITTLE things about Jesus.
But my question is, How much is enough?
Does anyone that has scripture that NAILS DOWN, the HOW MUCH question.
Because if God states that ANYONE who does Good to other humans, is a sign that they are OF GOD. And in doing so, shows that that person Truly LOVES GOD.
It seems as though, God is stating that that is enough! No other thing be needed to PROVE one's inheritance to the Kingdom of Heaven. Possible NOT even the knowledge of where the power to DO the Good works of God even came from.
I know that Faith comes by hearing, but the Word of God can be said in SO MANY WAYS. Are we really convinced that it HAS to be by chapter and Verse?? And if not, then can a kind word or two be enough??
And if that is so, how much understanding of the WORD of God does ONE need.
Is knowing that Jesus lived enough?
What are the SPECIFICATIONS?
Ya know what I mean?
Thanks Little Joe.
Dante ;D
Dante:
Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Ok,...so this may SEEM to be a sticking point, to what I was trying to say.
BUT, there will be those who confess Jesus with their mouths and yet never believed in their hearts.
Those could be the people who said to him: "Lord, Lord" did not we do wonderful works,...etc. And Jesus said, (and notice what he said) get away from me you workers of iniquity.
BUT, could there not be those who never confessed Jesus with their mouths yet believed in what and WHO Jesus Really was, yet never had the understanding of ALL the intricate details of Christs life? And these being the people who stand in Judgment before God, and seem to be caught off guard with the fact that they served God, by serving the brethren? And of course, that ability came from God himself.
The Judgment
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 “All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 ‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 ‘And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 ‘When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’
( Notice at the judgment, It seems as if the “blessed” didn’t have any idea of what it was that they were doing, YET in doing so, they were fulfilling the commandments of God.)
(And Also notice: If these who were speaking were "Devout Christians", wouldn't they know these verses and understand that when they feed the hungry and gave drink to the thirsty, that THEY were doing it to Jesus??) There must be at least SOME people in this crowd that don't have a very good working knowledge of the Word of God!! Don't you think??
40 “The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’
41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44 “Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45 “Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Again, How much knowledge about God is enough?
Kat:
Hi Dante,
We don't seem to be getting anywhere in this discussion. At this point maybe you should send Ray your question, so maybe he can clarify this matter for you. L.RaySmith@comcast.net
Here is a couple of emails concerning the thief.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,979.0.html ------
It is not kosher to quote half of a verse when it has a larger context. Jesus did not begin a sentence with: "TODAY you shall be with me in paradise," did He? No, Jesus said: "Verily I say unto thee TODAY shall you be with Me in paradise." But even that is King James translating, and King James is not inerrant. Notice how the great scholar Joseph Bryant Rotherham renders this verse: "Verily I say unto thee this day: With me shalt thou be in Paradise." But as a footnote he suggests that "This day with me shalt...." as a possibility. So what's the solution? God tells us how to solve this Verse and every other verse of Scripture: "That no prophecy of scripture becomes self-solving" (II Pet. 1:20, Rotherham), "That no prophecy of scripture at all is becoming its OWN explanation" (Concordant LNT).
We must go to other Scriptures to explain what is mean by this Scripture.
v
v
I don't care if there are NO commas in Luke 23:43. Commas do not make or break the Scriptures of God. This verse does not contradict hundreds and hundreds of other Scriptures as the Church teaches it does. That day, "today," both Jesus AND the thief, DIED AND THEY WERE DEAD
This is a large subject involving the different resurrections, and the Judgments of God. It will take a sizable paper to cover it properly and I cannot do it now. Hope you understand.
God be with you,
Ray
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,549.0.html -------
Dear Suz:
You are confused because you are not accepting the teachings of ALL of the Scriptures. Christ's spirit did not go with Him to the tomb, and NEITHER did His soul (as you suggest I teach?)
Christ's spirit returned to God, but JESUS DIED and JESUS was placed in a tomb, and JESUS WAS DEAD.
Scripture teaches that His "soul" went to "the unseen" (Gk: 'hades'). Hades is not the "tomb" anymore than sheol in the Old Testament was a "tomb." Read my series on "HELL."
The thief was not converted, nor born again, nor regenerated; he merely believed that Jesus was the Christ. Jesus didn't promise him a part in His kingdom, yet that is what the thief requested. Jesus did not grant him his request. We must always read ALL THE WORDS IN A SCRIPTURE.
I will write on this one day and explain it, but it will take ten pages.
God be with you,
Ray
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