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How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
digitalwise:
Dear David,
If we have DEFICIT - yes it is true of all commandments, we have a deficit nature by virtue of the beast within but Christ has not paid just the penality but is also our PRESENT AVOCATE if we sin!
1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
The aforementioned is NOT imparted GRACE but IMPUTED grace. The deficit is our walking with God and failing. That is our ongoing sin. No man can obey fully all the commandments in perfect walking but the call in the commandments is to be PERFECTED in the true love of God. Our deficit is covered by grace not by nature as an excuse to sin but to LOVED by God. Rather the removed penality of sin pays forward the deficit when we believe and begin our walk in obedience to those commandments as consequence of grace. This is based on the advocate power of Christ is not a walk of perfection of the flesh [lower nature / beast nature].
Pure love undefiled decends from Heaven and is not from earthly or the carnal based understanding of payment or down payments. Avoidance of the importance of imputed grace as compared to imparted grace sees the meaning and removal of penality by the act of Christ diluted. Anything that is not of faith is sin. The power of sin is the law etc etc.
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Propitiation is a kind imputation or putting forth by sheding and splinkling onto the sinful defiled object. It is the same typology meaning when the Preist under the Old Covenant entered the Holy Place and sprinkled blood on the mercy seat in enactment to the atonement when OT Israel national sins were forgiven. By this work and power of Christ we are made perfect in our walk, not by will or desire to be but rather to walk and believe that I am wholly worthy by the merited and GRACED favour of God through His calling on my life.
Now I am of course in favour in obeying ALL words of Christ and His commandments - but the beast is a stubborn old man. To make it to the first resurrection is a case of God choosing us and is not the will of man (free will) but rather His own choosing and calling. [I [God] will harden whom I CHOOSE to HARDEN]
The above verse 1 John 2:2 is just about the most important verse in the bible and the sin is ours and is therefore a present tense. You will note an astounding truth which this forum stands by based on Ray's writings - it would be thus: sins of the whole world.
This astounding verse places the unrighteous lot of mankind under the propitiation act of Christ! Mankind's own deficit of perfection - therefore the sin/s are judged already.
digitalwise
aqrinc:
digitalwise,
Thank you for that explanation, it is a lot you say there and so Real.
In Christ Jesus.
George.
Richard D:
Digitalwise.
What you wrote was a blessing to me as it reminded me I’m not going to be perfected in the flesh. The flesh profits nothing. Its amazing how deceitful the heart of man is. I’ am what I’ am by the grace of God. I think the important thing for me to do is realize this.
I’m hoping God will keep me walking in his ways and I continue to increase in knowledge and understanding.
None the less its according to the predetermine purpose of God and not me. I know I’m accountable for my sins but I’m accountable as an imperfect human being. If I were perfect in myself then the work of Christ for me would be void.
At the end of the day I always remember the creature was subjected in hope and God is no respecter of persons. I will work out according to the predetermine purpose of God just as he determined and there is nothing I can do to alter what God has declared.
In His Love. Richard.
Robin:
http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html
WHEN GRACE IS A VERB
Grace means favor, a gift, to be cheerful, well, happy, graciously, freely, deliverance from danger, and a dozen other benevolent qualities of peace, joy, goodness, and salvation. It is one of those truly wonderful words of blessing. But just how does it operate in "the real world" as we say? A definition does not tell us everything about a word. We can, likewise, define "love" as, a deep, tender feeling of affection. But does that definition tell us how love actually functions?
We learned that "... when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord" (I Cor. 11:32).
Chastening defines how it is that God judges us. Now then, we are about to learn one of the most remarkable spiritual truths in the whole Bible:
"For the grace of God that brings salvation hath appeared to all men , teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world [eon or age]" (Titus 2:11-12).
Here then is the remarkable parallel between God’s judgment and His grace:
God "judges" us by "chastening" us! (I Cor. 11:32) "chasten," Greek: ‘paideuo’ #3811
God "graces" us by "teaching" us! (Titus 2:12) "teaching," Greek: ‘paideuo’ #3811
WOW! Do you even begin to understand what you have just read? Whether God "JUDGES" us (and later the wicked world), or "GRACES" us, He does it THE SAME WAY!!
"Judging" is CHASTENING (Strong’s #3811), and "gracing" is CHASTENING (Strong’s #3811). It is the SAME WORD!
"Grace" is not a stagnant feel-good noun -- it is also a verb -- that is, it does something; it accomplishes something; it produces something of great value in the believer.
"Teaching" accomplishes something essential in making man into God’s very image.
The next verse tells us what it "teaches" us: "denying ungodliness and worldly lusts ... living soberly, righteously, and godly!" Just the words "living godly" will cover every single thing that God EVER ASKS OF US -- EVERYTHING. "Living GODLY" covers every possible act of faith, love, and obedience that anyone could ever conceive of.
When God uses the SAME WORD to describe something that He wishes to accomplish, it behooves us to study deeply what that word means, especially when that word has to do with the very destiny of all peoples who have ever lived.
The subject of I Cor. 11:32 is JUDGING.
The subject of Titus 2:11 is GRACE AND SALVATION.
HOW does God "judge" us? BY CHASTENING (#3811, paideuo)!.
HOW does God's "grace and save" us? BY CHASTENING (#3811, paideuo)!
God JUDGES by chastening (I Cor. 11:32), and God GRACES by chastening (Titus 2:11).
By GRACE GOD JUDGES US and by JUDGING GOD GRACES US!
Gracing us by means of chastening, TEACHES US TO LIVE GODLY and brings salvation. Judging us by means of chastening, also TEACHES US TO LIVE GODLY and brings salvation!
It is high time we dispense with the hypocrisy.
When God JUDGES US THROUGH CHASTENING (I Cor. 11:32) it is for our good and for our benefit and for our salvation. Why then do we think that God changes character when He likewise judges the wicked, unjust, and non-believers at the great white throne? Why? God changes NOT! God is NOT a respecter of persons. You read all of these Scriptures. Do we think the Scriptures LIE?
If you are not rejoicing over these profound and marvelous revelations, then you must be spiritually asleep. I have just shown you one of the most remarkable truths in the entirety of the Bible! You would do well to not read any further until you thoroughly grasp what has been presented here.
And again I ask, "What does this have to do with the lake of fire?" EVERYTHING! I am not going to go into detail on this aspect of judging yet, but suffice it to be said here that the "judging" (Greek: krino in I Cor. 11:32 by chastening that brings godly living and salvation is also the very same "judging" (Greek: krino) used in Revelation 20:12 with reference to the lake of fire.
Seriously, do many believe that these God-inspired Greek words have one meaning when applied to God judging and gracing believers now, but then have a totally different meaning when applied to as yet non-believers in the day of judging? Do you? Well, regrettably, many do think that God is fickle, inconsistent, and a respecter of persons. Can you for once in your life begin to use your God-given mind to think for yourself?
This is an absolutely marvelous teaching. God "judges" us by "chastening "(paideuo) us, which means, teaching, training, learning, disciplining, punishing, instructing, and educating. And God "graces" us also by this same "chastening" (paideuo) which does not change meaning from one Scripture verse to another. Notice how other translations render this word paideuo in Titus 2:11-12:
"Teaching us..." King James
"Instructing us..." American Standard Version
"Disciplining us... New Testament (Henry Alford)
"And schooling us..." The Centenary Translation (Montgomery)
"Training us..." The New Testament in Modern Speech (Weymouth)
Now it is true that the Greek word paideuo #3811 can also mean "punishment." But punishment is not the main force of this word. Notice that none of the above translations (nor any that I know of) translate this word, "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, PUNISHING us that denying ungodliness ..." No, the force of this word is to DISCIPLINE, TRAIN, INSTRUCT, SCHOOL AND TEACH. Let’s at least have the sensibility of a ten year-old. Of what value is "disciplining, training, instructing, schooling, and teaching" if it goes on forever and ever and ever, and while being burned with fire, for ALL ETERNITY? Gee, do we think they will EVER "learn their lesson?" I, of course, speak as a fool.
All of these aspects of paideuo are with a view to amendment, correction, and setting right, not merely punishment for punishment’s sake. A father chastens his children with a view to amendment and correction, not for the sole sake of CAUSING PAIN! Why do we think carnal-minded human fathers are a billion times more noble and merciful in the disciplining of their children than God is in the disciplining (chastening -- judging -- gracing) of HIS children?
There is a need for much repenting in the teaching of this vile doctrine of eternal torment. This doctrine of eternal torture blasphemes the name of our Loving Father. It is heresy on a level with hypobole -- inordinate -- TOO MUCH! It is a damnable teaching. And it is among the filthy trash of wood, straw and stubble that will be purged out and burned out in God’s Lake of Fire from every person who teaches and delights in this most disgusting of all disgraceful theologies of depraved men and women.
Oh yes, there are things that are going to be burned out of existence in God’s "lake of fire," and this deplorable doctrine of eternal torment will be the first to be abolished and death will be the last to be abolished--and so, let it burn ... LET IT BURN!
Remember that Jesus Christ does not change and that He does not respect (have partiality) with regards to persons. With those two thoughts in mind, what is accomplished by the "chastening" of the Lord? He "graces" us by chastening and He "judges" us by chastening. What does it always accomplish? Answer:
"For the grace of God [that chastens us] ... BRINGS SALVATION" (Titus 2:11)!!
And all of this is of God. God judges, God graces, God chastens, and God brings SALVATION!
Perhaps you have a shortcut-formula which bypasses all these hundreds of Scriptures I am presenting and makes them all void and of no effect? I have heard of such short-cut formulas, but God’s Word knows nothing of them!
Notice:
"Being CONFIDENT of this very thing, that He [that’s Christ] which hath begun a good work in you WILL PERFORM IT until the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:6).
And when Christ's
"... JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world [the whole world] WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9).
As far as Christian theory goes, this Scripture in Isaiah might just a well be a lie, for they say it will never happen. They teach that the whole world will never ever learn righteousness and receive salvation. That’s because they neither believe the gospel nor teach it. And so rather than bring the gospel of universal salvation, they threaten the world with universal damnation in the fires of eternal hell if they don’t follow their short-cut-formulas to material wealth and spiritual salvation. And thus the name of God is being blasphemed among the nations (Rom. 2:24) to this very day.
David:
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
barus
bar-ooce'
From the same as G922; weighty, that is, (figuratively) burdensome, grave: - grievous, heavy, weightier.
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