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How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
digitalwise:
Dear Brothers,
I can see you would have thought that my reasoning is to discount chastening of the Lord as a means of grace.
My dear brothers of faith the older we get the more we realise that even commandments of the New Covenant spoken by the Lord Jesus are not easy. We not perfect. Phil 3:13. All chastening proves on us is that we NEED grace ever more and we truly SONS of God. Heb 12:7
Grace is mediated by God himself on his beloved children. And the chastening is part of the transaction. We all agree and could we ever say less.
However, if you my brothers you were caught in some snare of sin, does that make you less then the other who still believes and does not sin? You see it is not by merit or works least any man should boast. Eph 2:9 Even your chastening by grace to keep you in the palm of HIS hand is NOT your doing but God's will to save you not only in this life but in the life to come.
Remember my brothers we are not without sin. 1 John 1:8 For if we say we have no sin and cannot fall ocassionally we think ourselves sufficient in our own selves of these things. The doctrine of which one holds to must not become like the pharisee when they spent endless amounts of time dissecting scripture and became self righteous by laws. Remember my brothers if you stood with pharisee in the stoning attempt of the woman caught in adultery, would you cast a stone? The steps of a good man are ORDERED by the Lord, though he fall he shall not be cast down for the Lord upholds with his hand. Psalms 37:23
Are you a good man? Do you fall ocassionally? Do you do ALL the commandments of Jesus perfectly? Are you free from all chastisement?
Finally do the teachings of Ray ring an accord with me? Of course! They ALL do! Shall we sin so that grace might abound? Of course not! Romans 6:1
He who thinks he can stand take heed least he fall. 1 Cor 10:12 It is then you will need your advocate just like I do when I fall. For if your will to do perfectly is based soley on commandments alone then you are under law and you do need grace. We must all be captive to the greater - apprehended by Christ in your own calling, not by just teaching alone. Phil 3:13
I write unto children, young man and fathers. 1John 2:14 If you wish to be fathers in maturity then a father better understands why chastening is not just a teaching. We learn it is not by works - or by the law or by perfection or by sin eradication - but by grace. The paradox remains that we are sons of God despite our weaknesses and our sin. That is majesty and deep of the grace in Christ.
Blessings,
digitalwise
Blessings to all,
digitalwise
tinknocker:
Amen to that
--- Quote from: Longhorn on October 15, 2008, 01:15:33 PM ---Im glad God caused me to like Mexican food. :)
Love in Christ
Longhorn
--- End quote ---
Robin:
digitalwise
I had to run out the door after posting so I only had time to post Ray's teaching. It was not meant as a disagreement with your post, but rather to add to your post. The reason I thought it was important is because of the church teaching that we are saved (past tense) by grace. This teaching kept me asleep in the church for years. Christ died for me. My sins were covered by grace. I was saved and it was a done deal. If it hadn't been for all the new testament verses on obeying the commandments I would have stayed asleep. YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY.1 Peter 1:15 Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5:48 These verses woke me up and showed me that I am the beast and I need a savior. If you are guilty of breaking one of the commandments you are guilty of all. I stood before God guilty and knew I was not saved and could not save myself. I feel it is important to point out that we are being saved by grace as Ray points out in his teaching above.
Romans 13:
9For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
10Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
11Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed.
2 Peter 1
Making One's Calling and Election Sure
3His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
10Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
"For the grace of God [that chastens us] ... BRINGS SALVATION" (Titus 2:11)!!
2 Corinthians 3:4-6
4Such confidence we have through Christ toward God.
5Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,
6who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
legoman:
Thank you Richard for raising these questions and also for those who replied - it really helps.
I too find I have questions and don't completely understand the free will stuff, but then someone points out part of Ray's material which answers my question exactly. And its all in the scriptures.
The free will/predestination stuff is very difficult to grasp. It is so vast and amazing - just think of it, God planned that we would be discussing this topic right now and you would be reading this post at this very moment!
God even invented the internet! I don't know why that amazes me, I mean he did create the earth and the universe too. I guess its because I work in the telecom industry and I know how dang complicated it is to get computers/networks/etc to function.
And he made me like mexican food too :)
Kevin
aqrinc:
M.G.,
Remember (we are saved by Grace, Through Faith) it is a gift of God not works; lest any should boast.
Here is Ray's teaching on this subject.
This is Deep: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5417.0.html
George.
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