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Physical Bodies at ressurrection

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indianabob:
Marques and Claudia,

Good responses to Fe and patiently stated.  I'm proud of both of you for unities sake.

As we may agree some things will be learned later when God is ready to share.

My take on it is that God isn't going to elevate Satan to full sonship in a similar manner that He is each of us.  Satan may in some manner remain a messenger of the order of Gabriel or Michael who remained obedient and faithful during their service to God.  (not by their free will but according to their assignment) It is intimidating to me to think that great and powerful beings such as Gabriel and Michael who had such astounding responsibilities and delegated authority, will someday relate to us as servants of God's elected children.  Astounding!

One idea that comes to mind and that may not apply here, is that the angels know that they will not die.  They may be in some manner immortal already.  That is not to say that they cannot be destroyed if God wills, but they don't need food or oxygen to continue to exist.  So, in that manner they are quite different from us.

Also, the angels were never conceived of their parents and never had to grow and mature from infants to adults, with dependence upon another human for their continued existance; as far as we know.

Then there are the 24 elders.  There is so much yet to learn and if this discussion is to decide whether we are raised spirit and then whether spirit can be corrected or purified, then perhaps I don't see the NEED to KNOW.

We were made to be selfish and have the basic need to be changed.
Satan was made to tempt or test human kind and God made him as he is for a good purpose, so who is accountable for Satan's character?

Just my musings.  Indiana bob

Akira329:
Hey Fe,
I'd like to throw myself into the pot!

Psa 104:4  Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

Mar 1:23  And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,
Mar 1:24  Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
Mar 1:25  And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.
Mar 1:26  And when the unclean spirit had torn him, and cried with a loud voice, he came out of him.
Mar 1:27  And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine is this? for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him.

Act 8:5  Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
Act 8:6  And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
Act 8:7  For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
Act 8:8  And there was great joy in that city.

Act 19:11  And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
Act 19:12  So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Heb 12:9  Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Rev 16:13  And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14  For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

If I am understanding scripture correctly there are obviously unclean spirits, and Jesus, his apostles and even the lake of fire will cast out these spirits. Mind you there are more scriptures that show the power of Jesus and his chosen having power over these unclean spirits.
I don’t know at anytime that Satan was and is a spiritual being but scriptures do imply it.
Ray seems to make a point that Satan is always referred to as a serpent or dragon or devil (as scriptures refer to him as)
Since he is the father of lies, deception, and these acts are evil I’m going to say that Satan has unclean spirits. Also if he didn’t have unclean spirits why would he need to be thrown in the lake of fire?
Also no where in scripture does it say that spirits are incorruptible just by being a spirit (where by we have unclean spirits) Surely unclean spirits must be corruptible?? Sounds strange to me but then again corruption must put on incorruption.
Also Satan himself may be an unclean spirit and purged totally from the earth in the lake of fire??? Hope I’m not speaking as a fool!! If I am I stand to be corrected!

Hopes this helps Fe (symbol for Iron, hope your being sharpened!)
Antaiwan

jerreye:

Is Ezekiel 37 not a parable? Does Ray interpret this as a literal, physical event of dry bones literally coming together because of some literal shaking? The language seems to imply that the dry bones symbolize a people void of the living waters of TRUTH and are completely "dried up"...SPIRITUALLY speaking. God then gives them the knowledge of the truth by making those "dry bones" come to LIFE (not physically, but SPIRITUALLY) and then puts them "into their OWN LAND" (NEW Jerusalem). I believe that this "coming to LIFE" is vividly portrayed in metaphorical language as bones coming together with tendons, skin and breath (which are the essential elements that form a LIVING PERSON). Is this not the message of Ezekiel 37? I don't see how this can be taken literally. I don't see any "humiliation" here at all.

God also states that he will give them a "heart of FLESH". Ray admits and teaches that this is not LITERAL, but SPIRITUAL. Israel had a hear of STONE. This heart of FLESH is an obvious metaphor, symbolizing a PURE heart. Well, to me, the "dry bones" coming to life symbolizes a spiritually dead person being given the living waters of LIFE/TRUTH.

Psalms 63:1 "O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my FLESH longeth for thee in a DRY AND THIRSTY LAND, where no water [truth] is"
Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a DRY GROUND: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him."
Matthew 12:43 "When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through DRY PLACES, seeking rest, and findeth none"

Hey, I've been wrong before! One day we will know for sure! :)

mharrell08:

--- Quote from: jerreye on October 20, 2008, 04:09:30 AM ---
Is Ezekiel 37 not a parable? Does Ray interpret this as a literal, physical event of dry bones literally coming together because of some literal shaking? The language seems to imply that the dry bones symbolize a people void of the living waters of TRUTH and are completely "dried up"...SPIRITUALLY speaking. God then gives them the knowledge of the truth by making those "dry bones" come to LIFE (not physically, but SPIRITUALLY) and then puts them "into their OWN LAND" (NEW Jerusalem). I believe that this "coming to LIFE" is vividly portrayed in metaphorical language as bones coming together with tendons, skin and breath (which are the essential elements that form a LIVING PERSON). Is this not the message of Ezekiel 37? I don't see how this can be taken literally. I don't see any "humiliation" here at all.

God also states that he will give them a "heart of FLESH". Ray admits and teaches that this is not LITERAL, but SPIRITUAL. Israel had a hear of STONE. This heart of FLESH is an obvious metaphor, symbolizing a PURE heart. Well, to me, the "dry bones" coming to life symbolizes a spiritually dead person being given the living waters of LIFE/TRUTH.

Psalms 63:1 "O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my FLESH longeth for thee in a DRY AND THIRSTY LAND, where no water [truth] is"
Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a DRY GROUND: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him."
Matthew 12:43 "When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through DRY PLACES, seeking rest, and findeth none"

Hey, I've been wrong before! One day we will know for sure! :)

--- End quote ---

Aaahhh, but do you have a spiritual match to tendons, muscles, etc. having a spiritual meaning?  :)

To me, the scripture on 'flesh and blood not inheriting the kingdom' is the giveaway. Because it is both physical flesh & blood and also carnal mindedness. That's really what I think it's all about. Will carnal minded souls receive a spiritual, immortal body? Looking at it from this perspective, I have not read anyone present any scriptures that support this view. And then, the scriptures that state those carnal-minded souls will not receive a spiritual, immortal body do not have enough detail to everyone's liking. This is no one's fault or anything, just how we are and our differences. Great thread nonetheless.


Thanks,

Marques

Dennis Vogel:

--- Quote from: fe32k on October 19, 2008, 07:26:12 PM ---Hey Dennis,
Thanks again. But your reasoning assumes that a spirit being is incorruptible. So is satan incorruptible? I totally agree with you that they may both be true, but one must accept the possibility that there are different possibilities. I do not think that this will make or break me, but I think  it is important for us to analyze the facts if we are going to make a decision towards one side. So why can't a wicked man be raised with a corruptible spiritual body. It is possible if we believe that Satan is a corruptible spiritual being, right? Your thoughts?...

Fe

--- End quote ---

There are the good messengers and the bad messengers, neither of which will come up in the resurrection.

I can only repeat what Ray said that makes perfect sense to me:

Will the wicked then “inherit incorruption” at their resurrection?  Well many say “YES, yes they will.”  NO, no they WON’T!  Are men like Mao Tse Tung, Adolph Hitler and Saddam Hussein, who are among the most “corruptible” men who have ever lived, going to be given bodies that are “incorruptible?”   Do the Scriptures lie when they tell us that “corruption” (as in the above named persons) does NOT “inherit incorruption?”

Saddam Hussein was corrupt and will come up in the resurrection still corrupt. He will have to go through what the elect are now going through to inherit incorruption. He doesn't get a free pass to a spirit being that is more limited in it's ability to receive correction.

Let's not forget that the former resurrection is the better, more desirable of the two resurrections. I'd much rather come up as a spirit that no longer feels any discomfort or pain than in this body.

Heb 2:7  Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

Concordant: Heb 2:7 Thou makest him some bit inferior to messengers, With glory and honor Thou wreathest him, And dost place him over the works of Thy hands."

Job 1:7  And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Right now, we are inferior to Satan in some respects. One of which is he is a spirit being with the ability to directly communicate with the Lord.

It is the elect who do the judging, not the messengers. Saddam Hussein will have to deal with the elect as a human being before he is made incorruptible and has direct access to the Lord. Just as the elect have to be judged now as human beings before they will have direct access to the Lord.

Dennis

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