Mike:
After visiting your site regarding the upcoming Conference in Michigan, I see that you are planning to teach that the Elect will all have to go through the Seven Last Plagues. I have already told you that I believe this to be unscriptural. The elect assuredly DO NOT go through the Seven Last Plagues. God, in fact, gives assurance, that if His people will "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive NOT OF HER PLAGUES" (Rev. 18:4). The only way that you can put the Elect through the Seven Last Plagues, is to "add to" or "take away from" this plain Scripture stating that those who come OUT OF HER (the Elect) will NOT receive of her plagues.
"For God has NOT appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (I Thes. 5:9). The Seven Last Plagues fill up "the WRATH of the Lamb" (Rev. 6:17), and the Elect are NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH. What are the Elect appointed to? They are appointed to "afflictions and tribulation," (I Thes. 3:3-4), not the WRATH OF GOD (I Thes. 5:9). What part of the word "not" do you not understand?
Is it possible that both Ray and Mike are right? Might I expand on the scriptures quoted, in a teaching of comparison, and see if additional light might not be shed upon this dilemma.
Did Israel go through the
Plagues of Egypt? Yes! Was she touched by them? No! Did not Shadrack, Meshach and Abednego go through the
wrath of the firey furnace, of King Nebuchadnezzar? Were they harmed or was the smell of smoke even upon them? No! Are we not admonished to
be in the world and yet
not of the world. So also,
can one be in the church and
yet not of the church. The church by definiton is the called out ones, and we don't do the calling...God does. But aren't the nomial believers still part of 'the church'? But to become a chosen or elect one is not of his calling but of our doing....after His calling.
MAT 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called (kletos/saints), but few chosen (eklektos: select; by impl. favorite).Do the overcomers (chosen ones) overcome by leaving…or by not partaking of her sins and blasphemies...by cleaning up their act in obedient sanctification.
There are those in the church who are living ‘in Christed’ and in the heavenlies. They are also those who are led by the Spirit of God and are therefore Sons of god (Rom 8:14). But there are also those in the church who are 'in Christ' and living at the earthly realm, far below the position that comes to those who press in to the high calling of Christ (Phi 3:14). But they are not 'the elect' because they have not cleansed themselves to be chosen and honorable vessels (2Ti 2:21).
REV 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive/lambano not of her plagues. The word for receive in this verse is not saying what it superficially seems to be saying. This word
'lambano' indicates
'a self prompted taking' of something. Whereas the other Greek word usually translated receive is 'decomai'. It means a passive reception of something. Those who are going to partake of the plagues will be those who have taken/received them because they haven't pressed into the high calling. But those who have will be allowed to go through them...and yet without being touched by them.
Is this a possibility. Could both, Ray and Mike, be half right and yet half wrong?