> General Discussions
Eternal Life not promised?
bobf:
--- Quote from: chrissiela ---The “dead in Christ� that RISE FIRST are the “tares�; those that sleep. Paul said that WE will NOT PREVENT “those that sleep�. He's not talking about those who are PHYSICALLY dead... he's talking about those who also remain who have not passed from death unto life; those who are not a part of the first resurrection, receiving life now... passing from the NIGHT into THE DAY.
--- End quote ---
How do you know Paul is not talking about the physically dead?
1 Corinthians 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep
The tares are not in Christ so they can not be the "dead in Christ" can they? They are gathered first, but they are gathered OUT of the kingdom to be burned, not into the kingdom or resurrected.
The orders of being made alive in Christ are (1 Cor 15)
1. Christ
2. Those who are Christ's at His coming
3. The enemies of Christ
Daniel:
--- Quote ---However, it WAS indirectly claimed that the "resurrection" "IS" and...."WAS" (WAS is a PAST-TENSE word that means ALREADY HAPPENED).
--- End quote ---
If your "implying myself" I said no such thing. Christ IS "The Resurrection" and HE certainly WAS, IS, and WILL BE "The Resurrection". In regard to WHO IS "The Resurrection" He most certain WAS. But in regard to knowing the power of HIS RESURRECTION, this is our ONGOING HOPE in the IS and IS TO COME.
But of the Resurrection being PAST is NOT what I am saying. IT shows that "AFTER" HIS RESURRECTION (Rising) OTHERS CAME FORTH (the picture to show something further concerning ourselves)
Meaning AFTER HIS Resurrection, HE (who IS the Resurrection) IS OUR HOPE to know the power of His.
The only thing that is PAST in regard to what Christ "has done" and "finished", and did ONLY ONCE and FOR ALL is to DIE FOR SINS. Scriptures tell us this very thing.
Part in the first Resurrection is having part in Him (who IS "the FIRST" and "THE Resurrection").
So please keep in mind when thinking you hear one thing, as in "the Resurrection is past, that is not at all what I meant. I meant it in regard to WHO He is EVEN BEFORE His resurrection that HE HIMSELF "IS" The Resurrection, "WHO" (by nature of WHO HE "IS") WAS, IS, and IS TO COME.
Just thought I would clear that, so others cann understand thats not what "I" personally am saying. In case that is implied concerning "me" either directly or indirectly.
Peace
Daniel
alchemist:
I'm starting to look into it myself so I can't explain right now but I beleive the reserection itself is a parable hidden in the tora.I'll try to explain later if I get it.
Deedle:
I don't want to get out of the bounds of what is taught here so I'm going to exit the thread. I my self have a lot of thinking and studying to do on this subject. One last quick respone.
--- Quote ---The tares are not in Christ so they can not be the "dead in Christ" can they?
--- End quote ---
I believe all is in Christ. Most just don't know it yet. Not to be mistaken with "Christ in you".
Act 17:28
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
These are pagans Paul is talking to. So pagans "live and move and have there being" in God
Rom 11:36
For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things:
Joh 14:20
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Rom 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
1Co 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1Co 11:30
For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
Many of these Corinthians "that are sactified in Christ Jesus" sleep.
1Th 5:10
Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
Deedle :D
chrissiela:
--- Quote from: bobf ---Chrissie,
How can the gathering and burning of the tares be considered a resurrection? They are gathered out of the kingdom, not into it.
Matthew 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
The pharisees do not precede the publicans & sinners into the kingdom. The publicans & sinners precede and lead the pharisees into the kingdom.
--- End quote ---
Bob,
The field is the world, is it not?
To good seed are the children of the kingdom and the tares are the children of the wicked one, right?
Not exactly. :shock:
the good seed are the SONS (the word is uihos). The Children of the kingdom are cast out. :shock: (coming back to that)
But the harvest comes at the end of the world (age) and the reapers are the angels.
He tells the angels to gather the tares first, and gather the wheat into the barn.
Both are gathered “out of the kingdom�, are they not? Is this not because both are growing together (ALL having been reconciled to God through Christ) until harvest?
If this doesn’t apply to the resurrection what does it apply to, even Ray applies this to the resurrection, does he not? In Matthew, where these verses appear, it says: “The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.�
Both are growing together but the righteousness of the kingdom cannot shine forth until the tares have been removed.
How are the tares removed? They are cast into the furnace to be “burned up�.
There is also a difference between a child/servant and a son and what does it say about “the children of the kingdom�?
Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.[/list:u]
Is this not referring to the same things?
All have been reconciled to God through Christ right… so all have been brought into the kingdom of God – as children of God. But all things that “offend� and “them which do iniquity� have to be gathered up (or cast out)… into the furnace to be burned (or into outer darkness). The descriptions are the same, are they not?
Where else do we see weeping and gnashing of teeth? In the Lake of Fire, right?
And what does Peter tell us:
1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
1Pe 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.[/list:u]
here Peter mentions this "fiery trial" but he says “but let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, etc". Is that not the same description as those who “have their part in the Lake of Fire�? As those who “without� the gates of the city…. where there is NO NIGHT? And where are the children of the kingdom cast? Into "outter darkness" where there is "wailing and gnashing of teeth", right?
Not all have entered into the city, into the New Jerusalem, but all are in the kingdom, as I see it. However, "except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God".
I think I will stop here... that is why I didn't want to get into all of this. As it would take pages and pages to try and explain myself and I do not wish to cause an argument or any controversy.
Blessings,
Chrissie
Oh, and Bob... where did I say that the Pharisees go in first?
The publicans and harlots go in first (Mat 21:31).
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