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Eternal Life not promised?

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Lightseeker:
Good imput and references from you guys...and you too Chrissie.

Jerreye

Here is a reference which explains Jude 1:6 from the position I/we're apparently not conveying to you.  Read it and see what you think.

There is but one Greek word beside aiónios rendered everlasting, and applied to punishment, in the New Testament, and that is the word aidios found in Jude 6: "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day." This word is found in but one other place in the New Testament, viz. Rom. i:20: "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead."

Now it is admitted that this word among the Greeks had the sense of eternal,and should be understood as having that meaning wherever found, unless by express limitation it is shorn of its proper meaning. It is further admitted that had aidios occurred where aiónios does, there would be no escape from the conclusion that the New Testament teaches Endless Punishment. It is further admitted that the word is here used in the exact sense of aiónios, as is seen in the succeeding verse: vs 7 "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." That is to say, the "aidios" chains in verse 6 are "even as" durable as the aiónion fire" in verse 7. Which word modifies the other?

1. The construction of the language shows that the latter word limits the
former. The aidios chains are even as the aiónion fire. As if one should say "I have been infinitely troubled, I have been vexed for an hour," or "He is an endless talker, he can talk five hours on a stretch." Now while "infinitely" and "endless" convey the sense of unlimited, they are both limited by what follows, as aidios, eternal, is limited by aiónios, indefinitely long.

2. That this is the correct exegesis is evident from still another limitation of the word. "The angels - - - he hath reserved in everlasting chains UNTO the judgement of the great day." Had Jude said that the angels are held in aidios chains, and stopped there, not limiting the word, we should not dare deny that he taught their eternal imprisonment. But when he limits the duration by aiónion and then expressly states that it is only unto a certain date, we understand that the imprisonment will terminate, even though we find applied to it a word that intrinsically signifies eternal duration, and that was used by the Greeks
to convey the idea of eternity, and was attached to punishment by the Greek Jews of our Savior's times, to describe endless punishment, in which they were believers.

But observe, while this word aidios was in universal use among the Greek Jews of our Savior's day, to convey the idea of eternal duration, and was used by them to teach endless punishment, he never allowed himself to use it in connection with punishment, nor did any of his disciples but one, and he but once, and then carefully and expressly limited its meaning. Can demonstration go further than this to show that Jesus carefully avoided the phraseology by which his contemporaries described the doctrine of endless punishment? He never employed it. What ground then is there for saying that he adopted the language
of his day on this subject? Their language was aidios timoria, endless torment.
His language was aionion kolasin, age-lasting correction. They described
unending ruin, he disciplined, resulting in reformation.

Gill:
Cool post, Dee, thanks for that  :idea:

jerreye:
Sorry, Lightseeker, but that bit ALMOST convinced me several months ago. We need to be very careful not to be easily swayed by human reason such as this.

Understand that this article of yours was written by a MAN, and he makes certain assumptions.

He states that "..it is admitted"....no it isn't. It isn't "admitted" by any of the writters of God's Word that this word means "everlasting". It is "ASSUMED" by many that this word means eternal.

If the message of Jude 1:6 (as far as AIDIOS is concerned) is talking about the LENGTH of time these chains will bind these messengers, and that this binding will come to an end at the judgment, (THIS is the thing "ADMITTED" by the writer of this passage of scripture, that these chains are NOT eternal, but rather come to an END, which is the OPPOSITE meaning of "eternal") then why not use the word "AIONIOS"?

"...aionios bonds, UNTIL the judgment...".

The answer is simple. Because Jude is not telling us "how long" these chains will bind them. He is telling us that these BONDS are imperceptible. These messengers do not know what is BINDING them. But they WILL know what is binding them at the judgment, when they are set FREE by God's righteous judgments.

I am not trying to sound stubborn, Lightseeker. I just don't believe is contradictions in the scriptures. I guess if you still believe that Aidios means "Eternal" (or any other direct agent of TIME), then we are going to have to agree to disagree. No hard feelings?  8)

Jeremy

PS: What does "AIDIOS" mean today? I do not know. I do know that "AIONIOS" - TODAY - means "everlasting" in the Greek language. Check any MODERN Greek dictionary. Words do change meaning over time. Catholic bias of the 3rd century on, I believe, is the direct cause of the word AIONIOS changing its meaning from "of the ages" to "everlasting".

Lightseeker:
Gill,


--- Quote ---Cool post, Dee, thanks for that
--- End quote ---


Thanks Gill.  I hope the weather is better in England than here where I live.  Hot and windy...really windy.

jerreye


--- Quote ---I guess if you still believe that Aidios means "Eternal" (or any other direct agent of TIME), then we are going to have to agree to disagree. No hard feelings?  
--- End quote ---


Yep, that's how I still believe.  Agree to disagree???  Sounds good to me.  Neither position determines where we're going to spend eternity by whoevers definition is right anyway...that's for sure.  :D

jerreye:
Amen to that, Lightseeker  :D

On a side note, when I said that this word Aidios had nothing to do with time, perhaps I was not entirely accurate (I think it is pretty context dependant).

One other nice potential translation for the word Aidios in Jude 6 could be "perpetual". In other words, these chains are ON-GOING/PERPETUAL/CONTINUAL (we don't know exactly how long, but it is clear that it will be ongoing or continual...), but only UNTIL the judgment.

Here is an example...

"I am on a perpetual/on-going (Aidios) vacation, UNTIL my boss tells me otherwise"

The above line makes perfect sense...

Now, I certainly could NOT say the following (apart, perhaps from an idiomatic [idiotic?] expression)...
 
"I am on an EVERLASTING vaction UNTIL my boss tells me otherwise."

This above line makes no sense at all.

Imperceptible? Perpetual (with an imperceptible ending)? Both work for me, but "Eternal (without an ending)? Not a chance :)

Peace Bro!

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