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Deliverance
FREEINDEED:
Hi Lightseeker,
First I would like to thank everyone for responding to my post. The reason I asked this question is because it is a very controversy subject right now. The whole world is in a uproar about this subject. I was watching a movie on Lifetime entitle "A Girl Like Me." It was about a young man that had male genitals. But in his brain he thought that he was a woman. The world call this individual a Transgender. I posted my question really just to get an understanding on what the truth is? How shall we the Body of Christ respond to people that we believe are struggling with this lifestyle? Should we just let them be and say that they were borned this way or should we continue to tell them that they shouldn't be this way and that it is an abomination in God's eyesight. I came to this website, because I know that we are seeking the Truth and by reading all the different post. I see that we have different views on this subject.
Lightseeker:
I've been lost for a while here. Didn't know the forum was back until I Googled it today.
Bobby
--- Quote ---Dee God gives us choices and that life style is a choice which God gave them over to.
Romans 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
--- End quote ---
The original question...I think...was, did God make them homosexual? None of your scriptural refrences say...yes IMO. They all say we were created 'under sin' 'not righteous' 'all have sinned' ect. And I agree with all of that. But none of these verses say what kind of sin or sinner we would end up being.
In the above verse they apparently had God in their knowledge but didn't want to retain that way of thinking therefore God finally gave them over and let them have their reprobate thinking.
Anyway just some thoughts.
HARRYFEAT
--- Quote ---The easy answer to your first question about greater gravity is no, absolutely not. [Isaac Newton notwithstanding] I believe that the gravity of sexual sin was an outgrowth of the old testament where the laws were meant to keep the children in line. However, what is your definition of sexual sin? I have a somewhat qwerky view. I don't believe that there are such things as sins of the flesh. If there were, homosexual cattle would be going straight to hell
--- End quote ---
1CO 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
The term 'abusers of themselves is also translated 'sexual pervert' RSV,' homosexual/offender' NAS NIV and 'sodomite' in YLT. That's why I asked about 'gravity' of sexual sins being greater, since it says they won't inherit the kingdom of God. Curious as to your thoughts on this verse. As far as cattle, monkeys ect. practicing homosexual behavior I guess I put them in a lower state than that of man. They aren't accountable for participating in the the fall which has affected 'all' of creation. That's why "all of creation groaneth awaiting deliverance".
1JO 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
--- Quote ---I believe that sins are commited long before there has been any physical result from our thoughts. We are little different from other animals in our physical needs. It is my belief that it is our spiritual side that distinguishes us and where we commit sin. What is your definition of sin?
--- End quote ---
I believe that an 'iniquity' is the inherited spiritual tendency to commit a sin. A 'transgression' is a failure in our mind, will, emotional realm (soul) where we make the decision to bodily commit 'sin' (either by action...or inaction [or sins of commission or omission]). Saying a lot to get to the last definition of...Sin itself is just 'missing the mark'. Hope that definition helps.
Company showed up gotta quit for a while,
Harryfeat:
--- Quote from: Lightseeker on June 30, 2006, 02:03:50 PM ---I've been lost for a while here. Didn't know the forum was back until I Googled it today.
[
HARRYFEAT
--- Quote ---The easy answer to your first question about greater gravity is no, absolutely not. [Isaac Newton notwithstanding] I believe that the gravity of sexual sin was an outgrowth of the old testament where the laws were meant to keep the children in line. However, what is your definition of sexual sin? I have a somewhat qwerky view. I don't believe that there are such things as sins of the flesh. If there were, homosexual cattle would be going straight to hell
--- End quote ---
1CO 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
The term 'abusers of themselves is also translated 'sexual pervert' RSV,' homosexual/offender' NAS NIV and 'sodomite' in YLT. That's why I asked about 'gravity' of sexual sins being greater, since it says they won't inherit the kingdom of God. Curious as to your thoughts on this verse. As far as cattle, monkeys ect. practicing homosexual behavior I guess I put them in a lower state than that of man. They aren't accountable for participating in the the fall which has affected 'all' of creation. That's why "all of creation groaneth awaiting deliverance".
1JO 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
--- End quote ---
As far as the verse goes, all it says to me is there is no difference in severity or "gravity". It doesn't matter where you classify it, it is no better or worse than any other be it sexual or otherwise. If you read Leviticus you get the distinct impression that some things are more grave than others and require death or stoning. My perception is that the OT and all of its laws were meant to keep the Jews in line. If you can find anywhere in the new testament where there is a quote from Christ about gravity then perhaps my pov about the ot laws may need revising. When looking at the topic of sin, I tend to question anything written by the apostles as a carryover from their backgound steeped in Jewish law and ot scripture.
I am sorry my inteintions were not clear. The sending cattle to hell remark was a tongue in cheek absolute joke. It was not meant to be taken seriously. [see also my next comments about our spiritual side distinguishing us.]
--- Quote ---I believe that sins are commited long before there has been any physical result from our thoughts. We are little different from other animals in our physical needs. It is my belief that it is our spiritual side that distinguishes us and where we commit sin. What is your definition of sin?
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Lightseeker on June 30, 2006, 02:03:50 PM ---I believe that an 'iniquity' is the inherited spiritual tendency to commit a sin. A 'transgression' is a failure in our mind, will, emotional realm (soul) where we make the decision to bodily commit 'sin' (either by action...or inaction [or sins of commission or omission]). Saying a lot to get to the last definition of...Sin itself is just 'missing the mark'. Hope that definition helps.
Company showed up gotta quit for a while,
--- Quote ---
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
Miissing the mark seems to capture the essence of failure. There is no quantification or qualification of this failure in terms of gravity or seriousness. If you miss the mark then it doesn't matter what the nature of the failure was. All failure seems to be equal.
It is still not clear to me how this definition fits into a category of "sins of the flesh". What do you say they are?
feat
Lightseeker:
HARRYFEAT
You don't think the last verse I quoted speaks to a difference in severity of sin?
1JO 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
How do you view this verse?
--- Quote --- My perception is that the OT and all of its laws were meant to keep the Jews in line.
--- End quote ---
"In line"? For what purpose? I had always heard that they were to reveal the need for a savior because they/us could never live up to the law.
GAL 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Sorry I missed the cow joke. ??? Hey you never know here what people believe about some things. ;)
--- Quote ---It is still not clear to me how this definition fits into a category of "sins of the flesh". What do you say they are?
--- End quote ---
This may come off clear as mud...but here goes. I think that all sins which stem from a "lust of the flesh" are sins of the flesh. Whereas all sins that stem from a "lust of the eyes" are a soulish sin. And lastly are sins that stem from the "pride of life" are spiritual sins. It's not that they are "different kinds of sin" as much as they are from different avenues of temptation.
1JO 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Gotta go...Mama wants me to take her to the movies tonight.
Ward:
--- Quote from: FREEINDEED on June 21, 2006, 02:18:44 AM ---I was wondering if Homosexuals and Lesbians can be delivered from this Lifestyle or if it's God will for them to live this way?
--- End quote ---
Yes... All "Homosexuals and Lesbians," will be delivered from this Lifestyle. It will happen either during this life time or during the Lake of Fire. It will be brought about via God's Chastening Grace.
In the past I was one of the many that actually thought that "THEY" were evil sinners. I believed that "THEY" had a choice and simply made the wrong one. I actually believed that homosexuality was a sin above sins. What a FOOL I WAS! :-[
Homosexuality is a sin... BUT, I've been given to see that it is no more a sin than any other sin. Yes, it IS a "sexual sin"... :o Just like the lusting (sexual) sin I commited when I looked at many women. Just like when I..... (You get the picture.)
Hmmm.... Where does that put me? No less a sinner... A sexual sinner at that!!! Guilty of 1 = Guilty of ALL. :'(
I began to wonder, "Why do THEY have those desires?" I couldn't imagine having them... But thankfully I can see now...
IF I was born with the same gifts... (Both negative and positive)
IF I was born into the same environment... (Time, parents, siblings, friends, school, etc.)
IF I was in the same situations...
I WOULD BE A HOMOSEXUAL, too. I was created marred, too.
Why do hetrosexuals seem so interested in pointing out the homosexuals' sin?
My belief, at this point, is that hetrosexuals believe that the sin of homosexuality is the ONE sin they can claim the never commited. "Yep... I may have commited every other sin there is, but I didn't do that one. No Siree... Not ME!" So that must make it worse. Right? And of course its my job to point this out to everyone. (Point out those HOMOs so that nobody notices my own sins is more like it.)
Sin is Sin... Thankfully, God's Chastening Grace fits all sizes, shapes, and colors.
Ward
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