> General Discussions
Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
Drew:
Grape, thank you for the stimulation that caused me to go to Gal. 1 and beyond. Much to cogitate upon.
Bless you.
Drew
I agree with Stacey and Arc and I also want to hear more from Kat concerning her comments. I appreciate her insights, as well.
gmik:
1Cr 15:28-- When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him,.... so that God may be all in all.
I always figured when we get to the ..."God may be ALL in ALL" age or aion was when we would see/know Him as He is.
Isn't "God will be all in all" the final round-up?
Kat:
Well to me how can God the Father be contained to a shape or image? It just seemed that He is too immense/glorious for that. Here is little part of the Bible study.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12896.msg113152.html ----------
Since no man at any time has seen or heard the Father, what about Jesus? Jesus said;
John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save (except) He (Jesus) which is of (from) God, He hath seen the Father.
Then why can’t we? Well we read it before, because we are mortal. When Jesus was with the Father He obviously was not mortal. Remember He lowered Himself, He emptied Himself,
He was “made.” It doesn’t say He was born a little lower than the angels, “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels” (Heb 2:9). He was made. Contrary to so many people that I’m studying.
So the Father has not been seen by any one except the One who is “from God.” Concordant reads this way.
John 6:46 Not that the Father has been seen by anyone, except by the One who is from God. This One has seen the Father. (CLV)
-------------------------------------------------------
I realize this is just a discussion, we're all just sharing what we're seeing at this point.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
daywalker:
--- Quote from: Kat on June 28, 2011, 05:22:32 PM ---
Well as I said, I did believe that God the Father could not be contained to a shape or image. It just seemed that He was too immense/glorious for that to me. But in the last Bible study what Ray was saying made me rethink this whole thing. Here is little part of the Bible study.
--- End quote ---
I'm with ya, Kat!
I don't believe the Father could be "contained" to a shape or form, but who's to say that He can't "appear" in a shape or form, like Jesus did several times after His resurrection? I mean, if Jesus is capable of walking the earth in human form, I would venture to say the Father could if He wanted to. I'm well aware that God is not a human, and no I don't believe the Father is 'an old man with a long grey beard' sitting on some throne somewhere in the celestials (LOL), but that doesn't mean He couldn't "appear" as one if He wanted to. As I said earlier, Jesus never said the Father had NO "voice" or "form". That doesn't belittle Him or 'reduce' Him one iota, in my opinion.
Sometimes, I think people let their imaginations run wild with all this "spiritual" stuff (meaning: spiritual beings, spiritual things). Just because "spirit beings" are invisible to us, doesn't mean they can't be visible ever, at all. Take angels and demons for example. I believe they exist. I can't see them, but I believe they are here. Can angels see each other? I think so. Can demons see each other? I think so. But how? Well, they must have a "form" of some sort that is visible to other spirit beings. How else would "Legion" have known that they "were many" if they couldn't see each other? When God spoke to Satan before Job's trials, could God see Satan? I think so. That would require Satan to have some sort of form, I venture. Could Satan see God? That's a good question, in my opinion. Jesus said no "man" has ever seen God at any time, but Satan is not a man, so perhaps he can see God?
Just speculation, I know. But things gotta make sense to me, and I don't see how the idea of us all being completely "invisible" not being able to see each other, interact with each other, can be of any comfort or joy. I'd like to think that when it's all said and done, we can all hang out together and chat about old times...that could just be my carnal side, though. :D
Just sayin... Daywalker 8)
grapehound:
I think we may be getting bogged down here with the 'treachery of words'!
Words are pretty clumsy things when it comes to expressing infinitely finer meanings.
From my perspective, words, per se, do not have meaning. Consciousness has meaning and words are not conscious; they are vehicles of expression.
People have meaning and their expressions of meaning can become occluded by particular usage.
I was reminded of this recently when our dear brother Moises used the word 'baggy' to allude to the stretching of concepts between cultures; but I got what he meant.
This idea of 'seeing' God seems to revolve around the idioms used to express 'perception'.
If you 'see' what I mean! You are not 'seeing' with the eye. You are perceiving with your understanding. See? LOL!
Seriously though Kat, I appreciate that you began your reply by stating:
--- Quote ---Well as I said, I did believe that God the Father could not be contained to a shape or image.
--- End quote ---
OK. I'm fine with that, but that was not the thrust of my conjecture.
Jesus said that who had seen Him had seen the Father.
But God is not a man.................?
Therefore my understanding is the allusion that when we are perfected, we shall be like Him, as Jesus was and is and forever will be.
I did not suggest 'containment' of God in any way; either in form or formless.
I don't think anything I wrote suggested that.
And I've just read Daywalkers post in the middle of this and this whole caboodle seems to have gone off the rails! LOL! I'm not in disagreement with either of you!
Let me try this.................
As Arc succinctly said in another thread, Perspective is Perception, ie. no other physical person can see out from your eyes. That is your unique perspective. So on this earth we have six and a half billion worlds and counting. Thirteen billion eyes and that's just Humans! And no two have the same perspective.
Now, each perspective has its own Perception, because we internalise what we see and conclude a perception based on that perspective.
Basically all I was saying was that we eventually will be 'like' Jesus because I believe He is the perfect template for Humanity. Therefore when we see Him we shall be like Him, because Jesus is the image of his Father; OUR Father; and we are made in His image. His likeness.
I wanted simply to express the idea that His indwelling perfection is the potential for each one of us in either of the resurrections, that will be our condition, because He wills it so, and ALL shall be saved.
But, there are decades of Babylon conditioning that some of us are still struggling to escape and it sometimes shows itself in the subtext of some of our posts. The idea that God is something or someone 'outside' of us is a travesty of theological philosophy; as though there is a separation between Father and ANY part of His creation, which cannot possibly be, because ALL is contained in Him.
I didn't post to debate, but to placate and heal. That was my sole intention.
There's a lot of hurting out there and I just wanted to reassure the hurting that there is nothing to fear from Daddy's Love, for His will is to prosper us and bring us all from Glory to Glory.
Muchest Luv
Grape x
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