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All sin leads to death and...
Mike Gagne:
P.S alex , Jesus is the lake of fire, are God is a consuming FIRE... In Christ Mike
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Mike Gagne on November 24, 2014, 11:16:09 PM ---Well Alex read away! ...Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces? (Jeremiah 23:29 KJV)...And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God. (Zechariah 13:9 KJV).....That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: (1 Peter 1:7 KJV)....Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: (1 Peter 4:12 KJV)... Now alex this one you really have to understand that every mans work, means every mans work!!!...Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Corinthians 3:13-15 KJV)... Now this will take some spiritual discernment, to know which lake of fire you are in or going to be in!! But the natural man receives not the things of the spirit for they are foolishness to him,neither can he know , because they are spiritually discerned.... In Christ Mike
--- End quote ---
For the sake of brevity I've edited my original post.
Mike,
I do not disagree with any of the verses of scripture you shared and I don't think that the elect will be hurt by the second death which is the lake of fire as scripture says.
Rays paper on gehena (Link: http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm) and what revelation states leads me to believe that the elect, the house of God, the saints, and the chosen, undergo Gehenna fire right now, voluntarily, because they desire to become more and more like Christ. The rest of the world, and infact, those who do not overcome, will end up in what is termed the "lake of fire." The fire that tries the house of God in gehenna fire and the fire that is used upon the world in the lake is the same fire. For some, the lake of fire will be a rough time of judging, such as hitler, for others, perhaps the chosen who did not overcome, they may receive "few stripes" as is written. Either way, I believe Christ taught the judgement upon the house of God "Gehenna fire" and not "the lake of fire" for a reason. The distinction was made because they are not identical though their purpose is the same, to save mankind. Another important distinction is that the lake of fire will also be not just Christ but the elect as well. They will bring judgement upon the earth with Christ during His reign to teach the world righteousness.
I'm open to discussion.
rick:
Hi Alex,
To become subjected to the second death is to suggest one was at one time not subjected to the second death, One is either subjected to the second death or they are not subjected to the second death.
Everyone will go through the lake of fire either now before the resurrection or after the resurrection, no one will escape the lake of fire whether they are the elect or not.
Not all will end up in the second death such as God’s elect but all will end up being made in the image of God and God will be everyone’s God and Father because God will be all in all.
John the Baptist said, He must increase and I must decrease, the measure in which one believes in the sovereignty of God is equal to the measure they have decrease to self. All this is of God who wills and does all His pleasures in us.
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Rick on November 25, 2014, 12:37:58 AM ---
Hi Alex,
To become subjected to the second death is to suggest one was at one time not subjected to the second death, One is either subjected to the second death or they are not subjected to the second death.
Everyone will go through the lake of fire either now before the resurrection or after the resurrection, no one will escape the lake of fire whether they are the elect or not.
Not all will end up in the second death such as God’s elect but all will end up being made in the image of God and God will be everyone’s God and Father because God will be all in all.
John the Baptist said, He must increase and I must decrease, the measure in which one believes in the sovereignty of God is equal to the measure they have decrease to self. All this is of God who wills and does all His pleasures in us.
--- End quote ---
Hi Rick,
Thanks for your contribution. I do agree that everyone is salted by fire and the fire tries every man's work. That there is no two separate fires. I guess my only difference of opinion here is that the elect will not be (or are not) judged in the lake but are rather judged in Gehenna. At least... that's what I thought all of ray's paper on Gehenna was about. I do agree though that it is the same fire just that its given a different name while it is happening to us in this lifetime as opposed to at the great white throne of judgement after the Resurrection of the dead.
Perhaps my use of the word "subjected" was not the best.
Is there a piece in ray's lake of fire series where he calls the judgement upon the house of God the "lake of fire?" Because he seems to attribute this judgement that has began now to "Gehenna" but I could be wrong.
Alex
Ian 155:
What about this
One is born naturally OK, into this place... this person is an "automatic" sinner ;)
During the course of his/her days,this particular person gets handed over into Satans hands for the purpose of destroying all carnality (logic reasoning) Flesh
(now I know some may say this process is reserved for folks that sleep with their mother and queers and stuff like that but really, looking a Job and other characters that represent things we go thru they were not fornicators in the Physical sense they were however spiritual fornicators and idolised their "achievements")
During this phase you loose everything and eventually become accustom to the process happening, it then becomes a distant memory this is like unto death,Job describes this process pretty well as does Jesus (now before anyone screams at me... Im not saying he had to be purged of sin) He had to Die though, and is our (physical)example.
The death of Jesus represents our "spiritual" death either in this life for some or in the next for most.
Now those that are dead to this world and the concerns thereof, including sin those who take every thought captive, those who shun evil those who walk in his light all the time,those who no longer live to appease the flesh,these are who I would call reborn sons of God "this is my son with whom I am well pleased..."
Since we understand one cannot assume they are elect, ok I know Ray did speak on "knowing" referring to paul's statement "now I know there awaits for me a crown..." this seems pretty straightforward but then we read in revelation and john talks about these same crowns the elders had and the elders had to cast their crowns down,in his presence.
So it is I have often grasped a spiritual truth and run with it on one level then tried to apply it to everything and have heard the words "who is this that darkens my council"
This to me is a sin that does not lead to (spiritual)death as instruction is coming from on high which leads to repentance ,forgiveness and a higher level of understanding don't forget the humbling part
To die to this world is pretty awesome its our carnality that perverts everything
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