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Great Question
Deborah-Leigh:
Perhaps it is too literal to say we are Judas. Maybe you need to reword this Ciy.
I can relate to the teaching that we are the Beast because the Beast is a spirit.
Judas was a man and he is dead.
We can display the traits of the Beast that was manifested through Judas and every other unregenerate soul who has ever betrayed or denied Christ or left their first love, but to say we are Judas in the absence of clarification through Scriptural witness, may well lead to ideas that are not contained in the Word of God and lead off from the message of Christ and His good news.
As I see this, we are not Adam or Eve. We are not Jesus and never will be. Some will be raised in His likeness but not His sameness. There is one God one First Fruits that is Christ and there are to be brethren in the family of God the Father and Christ His Son. We can not be anyone who has already lived and died yet we certainly may display and receive from Christ His qualites or be put through a struggle like Judas because of our shared weak spiritual condition of carnality.
1 Cor 10 : 13 For no temptation no trial regarded as enticing to sin, not matter how it comes or where it leads has overtaken you and laid hold on you that is not COMMON TO MAN ( Could common to man mean carnality? I believe so and here I see the common ground we share with sinful man. )
1 Cor 10 : 11 Now all these things BEFELL THEM by way of a figure as an example and warning to us: they were written to admonish and fit us for right action by good instruction, we in whose days the ages have reached their climax. (Note: Caps do not mean I am shouting or turning up the volume but are simply entered to show emphasis and draw attention to clarify.)
I believe that we are the unique creation of Christ and we hold unique destinies in Him just like every other soul does that has been created for the purpose of God and His Will. No two snow flakes or finger prints are the same. I do not see that any two souls can be the same yet they can be equally carnal and suffer equal circumstances but they are not mass produced photo copies. God is unique. I believe His work is uniquely fitted for each one of us.
We do have sin in common but in Christ there is nothing common but everything unique, fresh, original and incomparable! I believe we are unique in Christ but the same in our carnality.
we certainly can be like Judas in our betrayals of Christ. We do have the sin of rejecting Christ and having to be dragged by our Father to Him to be restored, healed and regenerated by His Spirit. We all begin in the physical and will be transformed into the Spiritual image and likeness of Christ but that will not mean for me, that we will loose our identity, uniqueness and there in our diversity in Christ will finally be our strength.
Just my thoughts.
Peace to you
Arcturus :)
Gregor:
Doesn't Ray (and I assume the bible) mention in his writings that Satan actually entered Judas? I think that the result for Judas was the same as when the demon legion entered the pigs and they ran off the cliff. Different method, same result - death. Godly sorrow leads to repentance, which leads to life. I don't think most people ever actually encounter satan (I only recall Eve, possibley Job, Judas, and Jesus. ???) though we all feel the effect of this lier/murderer.
G.
Harryfeat:
Hello Gregor,
Is this the reference in question?
Joh 13:26 Jesus, then, is answering and saying, "He it is to whom I, dipping in the morsel, shall be handing it.Dipping in the morsel, then, He is taking it and giving it to Judas, son of Simon Iscariot."
Joh 13:27 And after the morsel, then, Satan entered into that man. Jesus, then, is saying to him, "What you are doing, do more quickly."
Kat:
Here are a couple of things Ray has on Judas.
This is from the article 'THE KISS OF DEATH'
http://bible-truths.com/kiss.htm -------------------------------------------
Judas was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. The apostles saw a sheep—Jesus saw a wolf. What was Judas’ ultimate sheep’s camouflage? Why, wasn’t it a simple, sincere, pure, godly "kiss?" Think again.
"Now he that betrayed Him give them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, the same is He: hold Him fast. And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed Him" (Matt. 26:48-49).
You have all seen this drama acted out many times in films—a simple little peck on Jesus’ cheek. Oh really?
The five Scriptures using the word "kiss" from Paul and Peter, always used the Greek word "philema" which means "kiss" and nothing else. In Luke 22:48 we read this:
"But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betray you the Son of man with a kiss [Gk: a simple ‘philema’ kiss]?"
But in Matt. 26:48, we find something totally different. Judas told the elders and chief priest:
"…whomsoever I shall [PHILEO—passionate fondness] kiss, that same is He…"
Judas did not have a "philema" kiss in mind at all. The "kiss" in Matt. 26:48 is a "phileo" kiss, and it means a fond, affectionate, passionate kiss, not a simple "philemo kiss." And the elders and high priest knew the different in these two words. One was a peck on the cheek, but Judas determined to use a more a passionate, huggie huggie kissie kissie display in his attempt to betray Jesus to the devouring and ravaging wolves.
This is really intriguing stuff. Now after Judas tells the priest and elders what kind of a kiss he will give Jesus [a phileo kiss] to betray Jesus, He actually delivers this kiss. And how does he do that? He does it with yet another Greek word for kiss, which is, "kataphileo" mean "to kiss EARNESTLY."
This "kataphileo kiss" is used three other times in Scriptures:
Luke 7:45—"You gave me no kiss [no affectionate ‘phileo’ kiss, Jesus admonishes His disciples] but this woman since the time I came in has not ceased to kiss [‘kataphileo kisses’—earnestly] My feet."
Luke 15:20—"And he [the prodigal son] arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him [earnestly and passionately with a ‘kataphileo kisses’]."
Acts 20:37—"And they all wept sore, and fell on Paul’s neck, and kissed him [with ‘cataphileo kisses’ of great passion and earnest]."
Is it not abundantly clear that this super emotional use of hugs and kisses was used only on the most RARE occasions of deep and profound emotional circumstances? But this is not proper conduct for everyday behavior. See these over-pious charlatans for what they are. Be suspect of those who use super-pious and sanctimonious hugs and kisses every day of the week.
Now to the Judas Kiss of Death:
"And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, Master; and KISSED HIM."
The Greek is "kisses"—multiple kisses, with ‘kataphilio kisses, just as we find in every single use of this word in Scriptures I showed above.
No, Judas did not betray Jesus with a peck on the cheek; he deceitfully delivered a "huggie huggie kissie kissie, fraudulent hugs and KISSES OF DEATH!
What must we learn from all this? Whenever we pretend to be Christ-like but it’s all a charade, we too are guilty of giving Christ a Judas kiss of death. What a disgusting display of the carnal mind and flesh, Judas has left us. Some have vengeance in their heart, others vanity, others bitterness and hatred, and yet others uncontrollable sins of the flesh, but they try to camouflage their evils with a plethora of hugs and kisses to all.
Don’t be afraid to hug; don’t be afraid to kiss, but beware of such phony displays of pious emotions, as they could be your "KISS OF DEATH."
A spiritual hug to you all, from my heart,
Ray
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,302.0.html ----------------
Dear Harry:
Well, for one thing, he lost his standing as a apostle when he killed himself. He couldn't very well serve as an apostle from the grave. He certainly felt bad about what he had done, which shows a conscience. On the other hand, he was a coward to face his sins like a man, and took what was to him the easier way out. He will come up in judgment, and all the carnality left will be burned out by God's consuming spiritual fire.
God be with you,
Ray
DuluthGA:
Hi all,
CIY I very much appreciate what I took to mean your figurative/spiritual we are the one who crucified Jesus as it seems to me to be addressed by:
James 2: 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
This verse is used by Ray in 'Repentance Parts 1 and 2' to show that we are communally involved, per this scripture, in the hideous and gross acts of criminals. Ick :-X but true.
I am especially intrigued by feat's to Little Bear: Was he (Judas) in such mental anguish as will be endured in the LOF. Was his LOF actually being described to us as we see his final acts of despair.
Certainly worth a thought or two, and further:
--- Quote ---In my opinion it is not up to me to decide whether Judas is not written in the book of life and to be thrown into the LOF. I am not the final judge.
--- End quote ---
Quite rightly brother because...
John 5: 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. ;)
AND GOOD QUESTION FEAT:
--- Quote ---Who is to sit in throne number 12 if Jesus was not referring to Judas?
--- End quote ---
Unless it is for his replacement apostle. (??)
Thanks to all!
Janice
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