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"Types"

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lilitalienboi16:

--- Quote from: Gregor on October 04, 2007, 01:16:36 AM ---Greetings all,
Great posts and thanks!

Perhaps the "rib" is a type of the Spirit too, (which may make Eve a shadow too?)
shadows (as in the law being a shadow of good things to come, Heb. 10:1)
The natural rib of man is there to give structure to the body, as well as to protect the inner organs/parts ie: the heart/lungs. The Spirit fulfills this function in the "spiritual body."  It is this Spirit that we (Gentiles/carnal man) receive by faith in order to become children in the family of God.  Now I'm getting into faith (a little off topic, but interconnected just like all the systems that make up a body). The just shall live by faith. (Gal.3 explains the promise is through faith, and that the promise came prior to the law, and that it is only promised to one seed - Jesus) Note vs.23-25: But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. This is why it is of utmost importance that we become "one" with Jesus, through faith, by his Spirit.

I tend to agree with sonofone in that I don't like the romanticizing of disobedience. Perhaps there is a further explanation, in that there is a connection between heart and mind. I read in Gen.3:11,12 that God doesn't ask "Why did you eat," he asks "Who told you that you're naked? Have you eaten..." and Adam truthfully replies. So he doesn't even blame Eve, he answers the questions. I think the more accurate explanation of why he ate would involve legalities, not just emotions:

Heb.9:16,17: For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.

This is why Christ had to die, to bring the "will" of the Father into effect. And we know that God loves mercy over judgement, but must Himself remain true to his word and be righteous.

All in all, I've really enjoyed everyone's input and hope we can all continue to grow.
All the best in Christ,
G.

--- End quote ---

The very reason Christ died on the Cross was to show that God indeed loved humanity. Although it was for sin, it was also to display love. Is this not emotional?

"For God THUS [Meaning in THIS MANNER] loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "

Again, i think you guys are takeing a shadow, and confusing it with the reality. That is not what i was doing or saying.

God bless,

Alex

hillsbororiver:


--- Quote from: sonofone on October 03, 2007, 07:18:59 PM ---I enjoyed your thread Alex,it is nice to see what God can do in the mind of anyone that submitts to him. Types and shadows are throughout the bible and this is a good illustration of that. I personally have a problem with the Adam dying with his wife as not to be separated from her. Not that I can't see the sense of it. Just the romantic part of it that suggest something noble about his decision to disobey God. Love should have caused him to lead her to the tree of life not the tree of death. But that's just me.Good post brother.

--- End quote ---

Hi All,

It would not be the first time in either Biblical or secular history that the lust/love has influenced a man to do the wrong thing and sin, often leading to despair and/or misery for both, men have lied, stolen, cheated and killed out of the desire (love?) for a woman. Men have also left their first (carnal) love, their own wives to persue the "other woman."

Of course a perfect godly (Spirit of Christ) love would not allow for this but a lustful, carnal (Adam) love would, could and does it every single day. Physical, earthly love is imperfect and self serving, only the love that manifests itself from the Spirit of Christ is perfect and selfless.

First the physical (Adam) then the Spiritual (Christ).

A shadow is a dark outline, a barely perceptible image of what is actually casting the shadow.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

Gregor:

--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on October 04, 2007, 12:02:25 PM ---I think the more accurate explanation of why he ate would involve legalities, not just emotions:

Heb.9:16,17: For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.

This is why Christ had to die, to bring the "will" of the Father into effect. And we know that God loves mercy over judgement, but must Himself remain true to his word and be righteous.

You then say,

The very reason Christ died on the Cross was to show that God indeed loved humanity. Although it was for sin, it was also to display love. Is this not emotional?

--- End quote ---

Greetings,

I'm not saying that emotions weren't involved in both Adam and Christ's decisions and I don't think that I'm confused on this issue at all. I agree that Christ died to demonstrate love, but suggest that Adam died because of his lust. I disagree with both you and Ray in how you use "love" to describe what Adam felt towards Eve. I don't think that Adam truly loved Eve, but rather he lusted for her, made an idol of her in his heart, placing his desire for his own pleasure above the obedience to God - even if it meant he would die (the epitomy of carnal thinking). As Joe put it, first the natural, then the spiritual. We are in agreement in that Christ died for the remission of sin, which demonstrates love, but ultimately my point is that Christ paying the penalty, rather than us, confirms the righteousness of God. God had to stay true to his word, keep his promise to Abraham, and find a way to show mercy (salvation) to us apart from the law. All of this further demonstrates that it isn't about whether or not you or I am right, but that God is right.

All the best in Christ,
G.

lilitalienboi16:

--- Quote from: Gregor on October 04, 2007, 03:44:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on October 04, 2007, 12:02:25 PM ---I think the more accurate explanation of why he ate would involve legalities, not just emotions:

Heb.9:16,17: For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.

This is why Christ had to die, to bring the "will" of the Father into effect. And we know that God loves mercy over judgement, but must Himself remain true to his word and be righteous.

You then say,

The very reason Christ died on the Cross was to show that God indeed loved humanity. Although it was for sin, it was also to display love. Is this not emotional?

--- End quote ---

Greetings,

I'm not saying that emotions weren't involved in both Adam and Christ's decisions and I don't think that I'm confused on this issue at all. I agree that Christ died to demonstrate love, but suggest that Adam died because of his lust. I disagree with both you and Ray in how you use "love" to describe what Adam felt towards Eve. I don't think that Adam truly loved Eve, but rather he lusted for her, made an idol of her in his heart, placing his desire for his own pleasure above the obedience to God - even if it meant he would die (the epitomy of carnal thinking). As Joe put it, first the natural, then the spiritual. We are in agreement in that Christ died for the remission of sin, which demonstrates love, but ultimately my point is that Christ paying the penalty, rather than us, confirms the righteousness of God. God had to stay true to his word, keep his promise to Abraham, and find a way to show mercy (salvation) to us apart from the law. All of this further demonstrates that it isn't about whether or not you or I am right, but that God is right.

All the best in Christ,
G.

--- End quote ---

I think you are mis understanding me greg.

I certainly feel that adams love toward eve was tainted with his physical lust for her and sexual desire, but to say that adam had no love for eve, i don't know if we have any really proof of that.

Perhaps you are thinking of the term that i am useing love for, as the term that we would give to God who LOVES us. Certainly God is not LUSTFUL of anything, so it is different, but when i speak of adams love for eve, most certainly there is lust involved. Is this not how any of our relationships with that certain special someone is? Is there not that first physical attraction, THAT LUST?

God be with you,

Alex

Gregor:
Absolutely Alex, that is why even we (believers, walking in the spirit) are not yet perfect, but only a shadow of what we too will become. Adam may have known love in part, as do we, but it was his lust (idolatry of the heart, self seeking) that would make him choose his wife over the commandment of God (again, the epitomy of carnal thinking, of which we're all guilty).

Eph.4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

The reality is, that if we did love in its purest form, we would never get married, and we would be as it is in heaven, neither married, nor given in marriage, but one with God (Imitating Christ). Our prime reason for marriage is because of the war raging in our members and our lack of self-control (fruit of the spirit). This too is a part of the plan.
Rom.8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

1Cor.13

[4] Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
[5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
[6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
[7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
[8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

The bolded qualities in vs.4-8 are the areas we (Adam) fall short (now, in part) while yet in the flesh.

[9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
[11] When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
[12] For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
[13] And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Unlike Adam (us), Christ laid down his life in obedience to the command of God, not as the result of disobedience. Adam may have thought he was doing a noble thing (in his mind, therefore vanity), but our best is not even close to what God requires in righteousness. God clearly states:

Isa.40:17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity

Jer.2:5 Thus saith the LORD, What iniquity have your fathers found in me, that they are gone far from me, and have walked after vanity, and are become vain?

The vanity found in lust is part of God's plan, a shadow of the love and relationship we will oneday know in full. Everything in His timing. Again, this isn't about whether or not you or I am right, but that God is right. Maybe we're both misunderstanding eachother ??? due to ambiguous wording?

All the best in Christ,
G.

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